Vanderbilt Cup Races

1906 list of VCR entries and location.

From The Garages of the Vanderbilt Cup Races

Note the cost of rebuilding the Motor Parkway in the attached - anyone want to guess what today’s cost would be?  Answer in the next few days.

From The Expansion of Union Turnpike and the Relocation of the Motor Parkway East of Winchester Boulevard

Great stuff Howard. I’ve been waiting for this for some time. Thanks to Roy for saving these gems. It all matches up as suspected. Thank you to all!

From Malverne Treasure #4: Survey of the Meadowbrook Lodge in Westbury (January 1938)

Had no clue but made up an annotated satellite view before I saw Art’s above.  Sam, III

From Mystery Foto #31 Solved: Then & Now: A Roslyn Curve on the 1906 Vanderbilt Cup Race Course

Dave - did the asphalt paving have a coarse concrete aggregate underlay, per the attached sample at Deadman’s Curve?  LIMP paving was rolled aggregate with a concrete slurry poured into it and only got the asphalt later.  If not, it is NOT original LIMP paving.  All - I noticed that faint trace (highlit in red on the attached) on the long map above and see it is still there today, between the S/B and N/B lanes on I135/SOB; is that a police turnaround?  It wasn’t there ‘way back.  Whee; what a thread!  Sam, III

From Update: Sam & Dave’s “Excellent 2019 Vanderbilt Day”- #11 Bethpage #2

A theory perhaps of The Caroline St Posts:  1926 map with the current street pattern, notice how they all dead end at the tree line. I pointed out the path that looks to be where the row of posts are. The parkway may have set these posts across the path seen to discourage the use of it since it leads to the roadway. Imagine planks or logs on one side and you have a barrier. Sure it didn’t totally stop usage of this path, but it was a quick/cheap fix. This path is still visible on the 1950 aerial above. I seen these posts up close & personal, too. These posts may have been set a 100 yrs ago.

I believe that Rte 135 was built over the LIMP ROW like Wayne & Frank’s maps show. And I totally agree with Al Velocci’s comment above explaining the road pieces/chunks that are found nearby. I can’t explain the flat exposed area of asphalt that Dave & Sam uncovered. Looks to be situated near the storm drain outlet pipe. Exposing more of it would be ideal, but attracting that kind of attention is unwise.

From Update: Sam & Dave’s “Excellent 2019 Vanderbilt Day”- #11 Bethpage #2

Congratulations with your position of Columnist for the website, Art. You lay all the facts out with no biased opinions.

From Update: Sam & Dave’s “Excellent 2019 Vanderbilt Day”- #11 Bethpage #2

The LIMP roadbed appears to be non existent in the 1955 aerial, east & west of Merrick Ave. Recognizable in 1950. Area was under development but I’m surprised still to not see a path at least.

From Malverne Treasure #4: Survey of the Meadowbrook Lodge in Westbury (January 1938)

Art Kleiner - I’ve added additional commentary and photos to the blog post.

From Update: Sam & Dave’s “Excellent 2019 Vanderbilt Day”- #11 Bethpage #2

A word of caution, here.  Much as I appreciate the Hagstrom’s (and similar) images, and I use(d) my collection extensively, as you can see on my site, we can not (MUST not) use them for accurate locations; they are general representations, only.  Sam, III

From Update: Sam & Dave’s “Excellent 2019 Vanderbilt Day”- #11 Bethpage #2

Art - it almost looks like Caroline St has been extended a little bit further eastward since your early maps. Look at new maps, it seems like Caroline Street goes a bit further east now then it did. Maybe they added houses to the block since then?

SBIII—other then the E. Williston Ave (Wheatley golf course) location you speak of, no other posts have been picked up and placed in new spots like that. And somebody there probably did have historical perspective there as the LIMP went over the road pretty much at that location where they placed them.

The location of these posts do not block any access point. I’ve checked that a several times. See attached pic. You can see the backyard of the house is there. It is not the end of the street or any kind of path, they definitely do not block any sort of access of any kind. I brought Howard there one time to see exactly that! The posts are there. I really don’t think someone just picked them all up and planted them there for no reason. And couple that with the fact that we just dug up the IN TACT pavement perfectly in line with where the posts would then be…..how does that make sense????

John—-curve #2 was there, I just think the “starting point” of the curve was more westward, so when it came back it came back to this point. The aerials are off in this location.

From Update: Sam & Dave’s “Excellent 2019 Vanderbilt Day”- #11 Bethpage #2

I’m still a bit confused.  What you’re presuming to be the motor parkway is in the 1950 picture next to the actual parkway.  Also, if the parkway goes where you claim it does, deadman’s curve #2 would not exist.  I’m not sure what you dug up but i’m not sure how it could be LIMP remnants.  Maybe discarded pieces of asphalt from 135 construction? Also, the house withe shed in the pictures above was built in 1929. Would a house have been built in such close proximity to the parkway?

From Update: Sam & Dave’s “Excellent 2019 Vanderbilt Day”- #11 Bethpage #2

Bingo, Dave; thanks.  AH-HA, indeed!  I couldn’t make out the Powell/Plainview off-ramp in the video but the spot seems to be where the green dot is on Frank’s map.  That cluster of posts is NOT original; they were probably relocated there to block an informal access, much as those on the north side of East Williston Avenue across the south end of the RoW on the Wheatley Hills Golf Club were (what few are left standing).  Sam, III

From Update: Sam & Dave’s “Excellent 2019 Vanderbilt Day”- #11 Bethpage #2

Here’s my 2007 website posting which gives a good idea of the location. 
https://www.freewebs.com/limparkway/bethpagesob.htm

Adding to the discussion:  the attached maps from 1939 and 1946 show Caroline Street as E. 4th Street and other named streets as number streets.  My Hagstrom from early 1950s show the new names.  And the 1946 map shows the area in question belonging to J. Botto.

From Update: Sam & Dave’s “Excellent 2019 Vanderbilt Day”- #11 Bethpage #2

SBIII—- when you watch the video you get complete perspective of exactly where we are. We are just east of the end of Caroline Street. See the map. The mysterious “Caroline Street posts” are just north of us as you also see in the video. Their placement makes a lot more sense now! They are right alongside the LIMP, right where they should be!

This is an AH-HA moment - indisputable proof.

From Update: Sam & Dave’s “Excellent 2019 Vanderbilt Day”- #11 Bethpage #2

Dave, please tell us EXACTLY where you dug.  Ideally, locate it on an aerial or satellite view - or tie it in as closely as possible to a nearby cross-street and house number.  If you have the ability, give us GPS coordinates.  Then we can have a fighting chance to explain what you found.  Sam, III

From Update: Sam & Dave’s “Excellent 2019 Vanderbilt Day”- #11 Bethpage #2

The video does not show remnants / debris / pieces of roadway. There is plenty of that on the west side but that was not the point of the video.

The video shows a section of IN TACT ROADWAY THAT WE DUG UP. Someone please explain to me——WHAT IS THIS if it’s not the LIMP??

The evidence is overwhelming! The only evidence for not believing this is aerials, which are not perfectly accurate at all. As I sited above: the Sigsbee Ave location in Albertson is 100% proven to be incorrect, by about 30 feet. Aerial angles can change and shift. You’ll be in the vicinity but not perfect! You just simply cannot argue with what you find on the ground still there and IN TACT! Someone please tell me what this is if it’s not LIMP.

From Update: Sam & Dave’s “Excellent 2019 Vanderbilt Day”- #11 Bethpage #2

Alice Kasten
Howard - Just read the Newsday article about your “retirement”. It’s a very sad day for the Town - they will surely miss you! I cannot imagine your being any less busy! Best of luck - Alice (who had to move to Connecticut to retire)

From Newsday: Ready for HIS STORY

Howard, That old Shed/Play House belongs to the Merin Family, they are my next Door Neighbors; I live on Norcross Ave in Bethpage and some of what Sam & Dave saw I have seen some of it many times in the past. That old Blue Car that sits just below my Garage & backyard and so does the Playhouse/ Shed I see that every day when I go out in my backyard. I remember several years ago mentioning to you that I saw what might be old Remnants of the Motor Parkway & sending you a few pictures I took 1 day while I was walking my Dog back behind my house on Norcross Ave where Sam &  Dave walked but I never heard back from you about them other than you would check it out it when you got a chance, unfortunately what I sent by email was on my old computer which I do not have anymore (the hard drive went on it so every thing was lost from back then)  Now I see that Sam & Dave have found more pieces & I am now even more curious about that Section of the Motor Parkway that you found down behind my house and block along the LPA/PSEG Right away near Route 135 which runs behind my house. I know mentioned that the Motor Parkway follows the LPA/PSEG Right away and that does run behind my Norcross Ave House in Bethpage.

From Update: Sam & Dave’s “Excellent 2019 Vanderbilt Day”- #11 Bethpage #2

You can see with your own eyes destruction of LIMP RoW (in Bethpage State Park in 2006) at <http://sbiii.com/limpxpl2.html#bspatroc> and the debris pushed aside and piled up at <http://sbiii.com/limpxpl3.html#bspevdnc>.  Ditto at the 1984 LIRR Main Line and Oyster Bay Branch bridge removals via Ron Ridolph’s pix at <http://sbiii.com/limpbrdg.html#rrbridgs>.  Sam, III

From Update: Sam & Dave’s “Excellent 2019 Vanderbilt Day”- #11 Bethpage #2