Vanderbilt Cup Races

Sort of reminds me of the big Fleetwood-bodied ‘38 Buick convertible I turned down at $75 for a stodgy (but AGILE) ‘39 Chrysler Royal sedan <http://sbiii.com/b-uattwn/iiitoo/autopix/39chrnew.jpg> at $85 as my first car in late 1951 (Xgiving vacation).  “Only” ten bucks more for a year-newer car - WOW (ouch - in retrospect)!  Sharp ol’ eyes may spot the fender-mounted MG side-light-cum-turn-signal.  The nerdy kid - that’s me in Jan 1952.  Sam, III

From Audrain Exhibit Concept Car #1: The 1938 Buick Y-Job: The First Concept Car

Dave and all, those post are not from LIMP days, but from a later time, note the concrete is smooth not the rough appearance of original LIMP posts from weathering for over 100 years, and it has no holes for the wire cable fencing of them days. The large asphalt slab that you uncovered is just a large asphalt debris during the Rt.135 construction that was place there with soil covering it, they had the equipment to do it at the time.

From Update: Sam & Dave’s “Excellent 2019 Vanderbilt Day”- #11 Bethpage #2

Jame Ryan
The Buick Y Job was at the 2016 Buick National show. Great car to see in person. The car was driven around the show field, that was cool to see. Thank’s for the article about the Newport Car museum, Jim

From Audrain Exhibit Concept Car #1: The 1938 Buick Y-Job: The First Concept Car

Let’s say Willie K.
circa 1900, will let others id the car
Since the museum is in Newport, how about one of the Vanderbilt’s mansions there - Marble Head?

From Mystery Foto #32 Solved: Willie K. Going for an Early Ride in his 1899 Locomobile Runabout

Convincing evidence that continues to grow with excess debris on the west side, and have considered possibilities for their presence there. But I’m sorry I am unable to tie the debris to anything original LIMP. Other findings paint a different picture.
The Caroline St. posts today are located approx 250 feet from the center of 135 (the suspected location of the 22 foot LIMP). That makes it well outside the 100 ft ROW. Has anyone noticed there is only one post installed right side up at Caroline (the most left, south), with its convex head on top? All the others are installed upside down. This is not the work of Motor Pkwy Inc., it would’ve never passed. And how is it possible to have the roadway on such hilly terrain? The slope was always there. The tree line in the old aerials is the top of the hill/slope before the steep descent down, and where the streets terminate because of the slope.
The path under the wires on the west side again is definitely convincing, but LIPA also needs to keep their RoW clear so to move their equipment for servicing the wires.   
Three small road fragments WERE found on the east side by Brian McCarthy and I a few years back. Photos of the remnants and their locations are below. They should still be there if anyone is interested. We inspected the entire area of the east curve (Deadman’s curve #2) with GPS, before losing the curve as it reentered into 135. This was all we found - 3 small pieces on the east and 2 larger pieces on the west, including a fully intact double-hole concrete post that was semi buried in the ground. We dug it out and stood it up against the fence behind the Sportime parking lot on Norcross (just SE of Nibbe’s cemetery). The post was very heavy and about 5ft in height. The location is on the pic below. We left those remnants there as well. Are these debris findings following a pattern - small or none on the east, and larger and more on the west? Regardless, my best guess was always - as some have mentioned here - the road construction debris was moved to the west, enabling some of the relocated materials to be reused/recycled as desired. I believe most or all of the debris found today was once used by LIMP, but their destruction/removal/relocation has nothing to do with their original location. 
I agree with Al and Brian S that Thorne Dr was once old Central Av - which traveled under the long bridge and crossed the RR tracks.

From Update: Sam & Dave’s “Excellent 2019 Vanderbilt Day”- #11 Bethpage #2

$140,665.00 in 1932, I got $2,578,248.79. It seems it should have cost more, especially adding the new bridge and removing the old one

From The Expansion of Union Turnpike and the Relocation of the Motor Parkway East of Winchester Boulevard

1906 list of VCR entries and location.

From The Garages of the Vanderbilt Cup Races

Note the cost of rebuilding the Motor Parkway in the attached - anyone want to guess what today’s cost would be?  Answer in the next few days.

From The Expansion of Union Turnpike and the Relocation of the Motor Parkway East of Winchester Boulevard

Great stuff Howard. I’ve been waiting for this for some time. Thanks to Roy for saving these gems. It all matches up as suspected. Thank you to all!

From Malverne Treasure #4: Survey of the Meadowbrook Lodge in Westbury (January 1938)

Had no clue but made up an annotated satellite view before I saw Art’s above.  Sam, III

From Mystery Foto #31 Solved: Then & Now: A Roslyn Curve on the 1906 Vanderbilt Cup Race Course

Dave - did the asphalt paving have a coarse concrete aggregate underlay, per the attached sample at Deadman’s Curve?  LIMP paving was rolled aggregate with a concrete slurry poured into it and only got the asphalt later.  If not, it is NOT original LIMP paving.  All - I noticed that faint trace (highlit in red on the attached) on the long map above and see it is still there today, between the S/B and N/B lanes on I135/SOB; is that a police turnaround?  It wasn’t there ‘way back.  Whee; what a thread!  Sam, III

From Update: Sam & Dave’s “Excellent 2019 Vanderbilt Day”- #11 Bethpage #2

A theory perhaps of The Caroline St Posts:  1926 map with the current street pattern, notice how they all dead end at the tree line. I pointed out the path that looks to be where the row of posts are. The parkway may have set these posts across the path seen to discourage the use of it since it leads to the roadway. Imagine planks or logs on one side and you have a barrier. Sure it didn’t totally stop usage of this path, but it was a quick/cheap fix. This path is still visible on the 1950 aerial above. I seen these posts up close & personal, too. These posts may have been set a 100 yrs ago.

I believe that Rte 135 was built over the LIMP ROW like Wayne & Frank’s maps show. And I totally agree with Al Velocci’s comment above explaining the road pieces/chunks that are found nearby. I can’t explain the flat exposed area of asphalt that Dave & Sam uncovered. Looks to be situated near the storm drain outlet pipe. Exposing more of it would be ideal, but attracting that kind of attention is unwise.

From Update: Sam & Dave’s “Excellent 2019 Vanderbilt Day”- #11 Bethpage #2

Congratulations with your position of Columnist for the website, Art. You lay all the facts out with no biased opinions.

From Update: Sam & Dave’s “Excellent 2019 Vanderbilt Day”- #11 Bethpage #2

The LIMP roadbed appears to be non existent in the 1955 aerial, east & west of Merrick Ave. Recognizable in 1950. Area was under development but I’m surprised still to not see a path at least.

From Malverne Treasure #4: Survey of the Meadowbrook Lodge in Westbury (January 1938)

Art Kleiner - I’ve added additional commentary and photos to the blog post.

From Update: Sam & Dave’s “Excellent 2019 Vanderbilt Day”- #11 Bethpage #2

A word of caution, here.  Much as I appreciate the Hagstrom’s (and similar) images, and I use(d) my collection extensively, as you can see on my site, we can not (MUST not) use them for accurate locations; they are general representations, only.  Sam, III

From Update: Sam & Dave’s “Excellent 2019 Vanderbilt Day”- #11 Bethpage #2

Art - it almost looks like Caroline St has been extended a little bit further eastward since your early maps. Look at new maps, it seems like Caroline Street goes a bit further east now then it did. Maybe they added houses to the block since then?

SBIII—other then the E. Williston Ave (Wheatley golf course) location you speak of, no other posts have been picked up and placed in new spots like that. And somebody there probably did have historical perspective there as the LIMP went over the road pretty much at that location where they placed them.

The location of these posts do not block any access point. I’ve checked that a several times. See attached pic. You can see the backyard of the house is there. It is not the end of the street or any kind of path, they definitely do not block any sort of access of any kind. I brought Howard there one time to see exactly that! The posts are there. I really don’t think someone just picked them all up and planted them there for no reason. And couple that with the fact that we just dug up the IN TACT pavement perfectly in line with where the posts would then be…..how does that make sense????

John—-curve #2 was there, I just think the “starting point” of the curve was more westward, so when it came back it came back to this point. The aerials are off in this location.

From Update: Sam & Dave’s “Excellent 2019 Vanderbilt Day”- #11 Bethpage #2

I’m still a bit confused.  What you’re presuming to be the motor parkway is in the 1950 picture next to the actual parkway.  Also, if the parkway goes where you claim it does, deadman’s curve #2 would not exist.  I’m not sure what you dug up but i’m not sure how it could be LIMP remnants.  Maybe discarded pieces of asphalt from 135 construction? Also, the house withe shed in the pictures above was built in 1929. Would a house have been built in such close proximity to the parkway?

From Update: Sam & Dave’s “Excellent 2019 Vanderbilt Day”- #11 Bethpage #2

Bingo, Dave; thanks.  AH-HA, indeed!  I couldn’t make out the Powell/Plainview off-ramp in the video but the spot seems to be where the green dot is on Frank’s map.  That cluster of posts is NOT original; they were probably relocated there to block an informal access, much as those on the north side of East Williston Avenue across the south end of the RoW on the Wheatley Hills Golf Club were (what few are left standing).  Sam, III

From Update: Sam & Dave’s “Excellent 2019 Vanderbilt Day”- #11 Bethpage #2

Here’s my 2007 website posting which gives a good idea of the location. 
https://www.freewebs.com/limparkway/bethpagesob.htm

Adding to the discussion:  the attached maps from 1939 and 1946 show Caroline Street as E. 4th Street and other named streets as number streets.  My Hagstrom from early 1950s show the new names.  And the 1946 map shows the area in question belonging to J. Botto.

From Update: Sam & Dave’s “Excellent 2019 Vanderbilt Day”- #11 Bethpage #2