Vanderbilt Cup Races

Florida was not aware of the race having ended and besides he was chasing third place. So he was still speeding towards the finish. The submitted photo seems to capture the moment directly after the impact. In the middle of the photo, emerging from the white clouds, the front of a light coloured racer can just be seen, which almost certainly is Florida’s Locomobile. According to The Horseless Age of October 28th Florida had hit a White steamer. This would explain the white clouds, being vapor clouds from that car. The car where Florida’s racer seems to be parked against, could very well be this car, as all visible details fit with a 1906 White. I added a photo of a 1906 White seen from the rear. Important details are the rear dumb irons and the rear axle. In a second photo, with even more vapor clouds, the ladies in the car on the left of the accident (which could be a Locomobile) are now standing and in the mist behind them a figure can be seen which could be either Florida or his mechanician. Lots of ‘could be’s, I realise, but still possible ...

From Update Mystery Foto #35 Solved: Jim Florida in the #9 Locomobile at the 1908 Founders Week Cup Race

Wild indeed! Amazing they pulled that off.

From Kleiner's Korner: Long Beach Gets a Race in 1906 (Or Does It?)

This thread has been on my mind.  Anyone familiar with Long/Atlantic Beach knows how precipitous the strand is - witness the steep angle of Ms. Potter’s car.  Back in those days, the strand was quite narrow; the littoral drift hadn’t yet swept sand from Point Lookout and Lido Beach westward.  It added 1,000’ to the beach at Silver Point just in my early lifetime.  Unlike Daytona and other broad southern beach courses, Long Beach was never an appropriate venue.  [The mobility of the sand is best exemplified by the need to move the gigantic Brighton Beach Hotel 600’ inland in April 1888 (on 112 flatcars pulled by 6 steam locos!); that wild story has nothing to do with the LIMP or VCR but is well worth a thread of its own.]  Anything for a buck, eh, Col. Dick?  Sam, III

From Kleiner's Korner: Long Beach Gets a Race in 1906 (Or Does It?)

Sam, the chaos and utter confusion of the 1908 VCR finish can be attributed partly to the fact that it appeared that Lytle finished first but since he had started before Roberston he actually finished second. They were the only ones that actually finished the race. Right after Robertson crosses the finish line the crowd poured out of the grandstand on to the track. Vanderbilt immediately sent word out ending the race. The cars still on the track had to slowly and carefully wind their way back to the finish line as there were already spectator cars on the race circuit. Vanderbilt’s Mercedes was awarded 3rd based on the 10th lap placement of the racers.

From Update Mystery Foto #35 Solved: Jim Florida in the #9 Locomobile at the 1908 Founders Week Cup Race

Here’s another attempt at a race course on a Long Island beach that never materialized.  From the “Automotor Journal” of April 15, 1905.

From Kleiner's Korner: Long Beach Gets a Race in 1906 (Or Does It?)

Thanks, Frank; I missed that one.  This just adds to my point.  Getting to pixellation, you can’t see any demarcation between the south verge of NB/HHB and the LIMP entry ramp.  Those missing pix showed just that from the ground - a continuous entry from the west.  Is a puzzlement.  Sam, III

From Then & Now- The Western Terminus to the 73rd Avenue Motor Parkway Bridge

Back to the VCR - there’s detail of Florida’s crash in the linked 05 Dec 2013 blog post, “Chaos at the Finish of the 1908 Vanderbilt Cup Race”, but it says he hit a roadster “carrying two girls and a driver”.  The photo seems to me to show FOUR people.  How about a new thread about that accident (or reopening the 2013 one); there MUST be far more info. available.  I thought we’d already covered it here but I can’t find any such.  Sam, III

From Update Mystery Foto #35 Solved: Jim Florida in the #9 Locomobile at the 1908 Founders Week Cup Race

Sam, check out Al’s amazing 1938 aerial of the western terminus below, stretching to 194 St., and possibly beyond. The distance measured from the former CRR RoW to the LIMP Row was only 60 feet, center to center. The LIMP entrance ramp off Nassau Blvd was ~230 feet at its widest, and narrowed as it approached the kiosk. It was 22 feet width thereafter.   

Bruce, my best guess, the LIMP entrance was just east of Peck Ave, alongside the current ped overpass. The LIMP roadway ran through the middle of the school.

Al’s aerial was found here:
https://www.vanderbiltcupraces.com/blog/article/the_motor_parkway_western_terminus_in_fresh_meadows_curca_1938

From Then & Now- The Western Terminus to the 73rd Avenue Motor Parkway Bridge

Amazing detective work by all. This one was out of my scope.

From Update Mystery Foto #35 Solved: Jim Florida in the #9 Locomobile at the 1908 Founders Week Cup Race

Based on Ariejan Bos’ comment, I have revised the answers to last week’s Mystery Foto.

From Update Mystery Foto #35 Solved: Jim Florida in the #9 Locomobile at the 1908 Founders Week Cup Race

Indy driver Hughie Hughes DID look like both!  If it wasn’t for my whiskers, with enough oil and road grime, I’d probably look like all of ‘em, too!  Sam, III

From Update Mystery Foto #35 Solved: Jim Florida in the #9 Locomobile at the 1908 Founders Week Cup Race

I can understand, see attached photograph of Stillman at the wheel of a Marmon. Myself I was convinced that the driver was Hugh Hughes, but I couldn’t make a Mercer from that steering wheel.

From Update Mystery Foto #35 Solved: Jim Florida in the #9 Locomobile at the 1908 Founders Week Cup Race

Well, it sure LOOKED like a pic of Stillman which I now can’t locate but I did turn up this amazing Western Movie & TV Photos image of Buck Jones at Indy!  Sam, III

From Update Mystery Foto #35 Solved: Jim Florida in the #9 Locomobile at the 1908 Founders Week Cup Race

Amazing to me how there don’t seem to be any good OLD aerials of the terminus area WEST of 198th or thereabouts.  I’d like to see the area of HHB around 194th to 198th, with its border of heavy trees and the margin on the south side, say around 1926-28.  Anyone?  Sam, III

From Then & Now- The Western Terminus to the 73rd Avenue Motor Parkway Bridge

A nice aerial from the site here.

From Then & Now- The Western Terminus to the 73rd Avenue Motor Parkway Bridge

Although I always check your site on a daily basis, I normally do not compete in the weekly quizzes as they are either outside my scope of interest or too easy. This time I tried, but it appeared not possible for me to find a solution. As I suspected the car to be a Vanderbilt participant, I tried to match the steering wheel to the cars, but failed. Now I know the name of the driver I understand why. As we see James Florida, and the car must be a Locomobile, it cannot be the Vanderbilt racer because of the different steering wheel configuration. Looking a bit further it is now clear for me that we see James Florida during the Fairmount Park races in Philadelphia, 26th September 1908, where he (and also George Robertson) drove a different type of Locomobile racer, the type I 4-40, which was in fact a standard production model and which fits with the steering wheel configuration. Florida would finish on 5th place, Robertson was the winner.

From Update Mystery Foto #35 Solved: Jim Florida in the #9 Locomobile at the 1908 Founders Week Cup Race

Here’s a screenshot of Frank’s online map zoomed to the western terminus. The red line is the Central RR ROW.

From Then & Now- The Western Terminus to the 73rd Avenue Motor Parkway Bridge

Going on quick guesses this weekend; Joe/Jim Florida in the #1Locomobile, 1908 races.

From Update Mystery Foto #35 Solved: Jim Florida in the #9 Locomobile at the 1908 Founders Week Cup Race

Based on the sweater, I’m guessing a Locomobile but after that I’ve come up empty. Looking forward the answer.

From Update Mystery Foto #35 Solved: Jim Florida in the #9 Locomobile at the 1908 Founders Week Cup Race

Bruce, pin pointing the very exact location of the western terminus of the Motor Parkway at the LIE. is a little tricky The City had acquired a 160 feet wide swath of land for what was originally Nassau Blvd. later renamed H.H. Blvd. At the time the Parkway reached Nassau Blvd., only the center part of that roadway was developed, (roughly 40 feet wide ), so some guess work is involved. but… after studying many maps, surveys, photos and drawings, I put it closest to today’s 195th St. and I’m willing to go out on a limb and put it at the east bound middle lane of the L.I.E One needs to look at the L.I. E. construction drawings of the area to get a clearer picture.

From Then & Now- The Western Terminus to the 73rd Avenue Motor Parkway Bridge