Vanderbilt Cup Races

Identify this automobile and the record that it broke.  35 HP Columbia Touring Car, broke the Chicago to New York route.

Identify one or more of the men in the Mystery Foto.  Lawrence Duffie (Bruce’s grandfather), Bert Holcomb, possibly Eddie Bald, Harry Sandell or R.W. Hourran

Where and when was this photo taken? Provide a rationale.  The Vanderbilt Cup Race grandstand on Jericho Turnpike in Westbury.  October 7, 1904.  Newspaper accounts (indicating the car and drivers met at The Garden City Hotel before going to view the Cup race track) and previous blog pictures showing the grandstand.  The Columbia arrived in NY on October 6 and the Vanderbilt Cup Race was October 8.  The grandstand didn’t have the race decorations up yet and no spectators. 

From Mystery Foto #13 Solved: The Record-Breaking Run from Chicago to New York in October 1904

As far as the “Tall Cylinder” seen beyond the treeline in the 1932 photo of Wheeler Farmway Bridge #2 ( Ground level photo ), I guess it’s a Farm Silo? This photo was taken in a NNE direction. When I compare this photo to the 1924 Aerial W/O Winchester Blvd, the Silo should be just past the small tree line. No matter how much I zoom into the 1924 aerial, I can’t make out the silo. No matter, I think you nailed this mystery, Greg O.

From Mystery Foto #12 Unsolved:Possible Options for this Long Island Motor Parkway Curve- Ca.1928 Update

Mystery Foto # 13… The automobile was the 30 hp Colombia which broke the driving record from Chicago to New York. The driver was Bert Holcomb with help from Harry Sandell, Lawrence Duffie, R.W. Harroun and Eddie Bard. I believe that the photo was taken at Garden City Hotel on October 8,1904, the day after the record run. They were at the Vanderbilt Cup race headquarters for the race that took place on that day in 1904. The rationale for the date and place is that the Colombia was still covered with mud from the record breaking drive the day before and was now carrying a banner to announce this new record.

From Mystery Foto #13 Solved: The Record-Breaking Run from Chicago to New York in October 1904

Brian - My thoughts are exactly the same. I could definitely picture that! Could be from the Model A Ford club of Long Island.

From Mystery Foto #11 Solved: Hundreds of Automobiles Seen in This 1952 Lake Success Aerial

Thanks Frank. I’d like to think that after following Howard and Sam’s sites, and talking with Al V. as much as possible for the last 10 years, I’ve had at least a little bit of all their extensive knowledge sink in with me!

From Mystery Foto #12 Unsolved:Possible Options for this Long Island Motor Parkway Curve- Ca.1928 Update

First: What fun this mystery is!

Second: That W.C. Fields movie of driving on the Motor Parkway is the closest scenario to truly experience what driving on the Motor Parkway really was. I’m ecstatic it’s still available for all to see. Please keep this link available. 

I believe Greg O has nailed this tough mystery ( with the help of Joe O ).

After Brian McCarthy’s on-site observations of the multiple mystery guesses throughout Suffolk County, all showed some flaws comparing to the mystery photo, including my own guess.

Nassau County was not analysed. 

Greg’s solution still persists. The mystery photo and the movies’ still frame seem to match identical.  Any thoughts are welcomed, please join in. 

From Mystery Foto #12 Unsolved:Possible Options for this Long Island Motor Parkway Curve- Ca.1928 Update

I can’t get to the show, but I have been to the museum, on my way back from Montreal.  I was shocked on how much they had on Long Island - and Long Island Motor Parkway, on display along with an original Sears car and many other amazing cars.

From Vanderbilt Cup Races Featured at the 2017 New York International Auto Show from April 14-23

Thanks for adding my thoughts about this mystery, Howard. I forgot to mention another clue.

*E/O. Springfield Blvd…. Just as Wheeler Farmway Bridge#2 is in view W/O Winchester Blvd, Wheeler Farmway Bridge#1 would be in view as well E/O Springfield Blvd. But I havn’t been able to locate a GROUND LEVEL view of the Bridge#1 as it would look in 1928,etc.

From Mystery Foto #12 Unsolved:Possible Options for this Long Island Motor Parkway Curve- Ca.1928 Update

Howard’s series 7 review of Wheeler’s Farmway bridge #2 clearly shows the bridge’s downward slope in detail (Thank you Howard, Greg Oriero, and Joe Oesterle). The mystery solution appears picture perfect at this location. I’m almost convinced. Any other thoughts are most welcomed!

From Mystery Foto #12 Unsolved:Possible Options for this Long Island Motor Parkway Curve- Ca.1928 Update

I was even proposing in 1 of my comments that this could be the straightaway and east curve across Bagatelle Rd/Conklin Ave. I know Art Kleiner has hiked around there in the past, and would know this area better than the most of us. I didn’t try checking this out today along with the other Suffolk locations. Ran out of time, and really wasn’t convinced with this location anyway.

From Mystery Foto #12 Unsolved:Possible Options for this Long Island Motor Parkway Curve- Ca.1928 Update

Greg O.-  I was looking at that same blog about the Alley Pond Bridge from 2011. This sounds funny, but there’s 1 tree on the N/S of this farmway bridge; east side. This same tree is in this mystery photo. Uprise begins after where the auto is parked. It would be great if the “Tall Cylinder” seen in the 2011 blog was in view with this mystery photo as well. It would be in view if the photo was a little more to the north.

Being that I live in Lake Ronkonkoma, I field checked the proposed Suffolk locations ( including mine ). The locations appear convincing from an aerial map. They all had aspects that didn’t quite add up. Especially the curve after Bedford Ave. It’s actually more like an “S curve”. The Deadman’s Curve of Suffolk County.

From Mystery Foto #12 Unsolved:Possible Options for this Long Island Motor Parkway Curve- Ca.1928 Update

http://www.vanderbiltcupraces.com/blog/article/long_island_motor_parkway_bridge_series_7_wheeler_farmway_2_alley_pond_park

You can see the upwards slope of the curve on the ground view Wheeler Bridge photo.

From Mystery Foto #12 Unsolved:Possible Options for this Long Island Motor Parkway Curve- Ca.1928 Update

Frank, I have to completely agree with you.

There was one thing that was bugging me about my own guess that your explanation addresses, and that was the white gaurdrails.
If you look at Howard’s post on the LIMP bridge series #7 from Sept 8th 2011, it shows the only ground level photo of the Wheeler bridge #2 in 1932. In the photo, the bridge has the gaurdrails (my original thought was they were added between 1928 and 1932) but the hypothesis that the rails were there also fits. Also, from the ground level photo, you can see there is an incline going over the Wheeler bridge similarly as in the mystery photo.

I think we can pretty much call this one ‘solved’ with the confirmation of the W.C. Fields film.

From Mystery Foto #12 Unsolved:Possible Options for this Long Island Motor Parkway Curve- Ca.1928 Update

Can you please advise what days/hours the exhibit is open? Thanks
_____________________________________________________________
Howard Kroplick

Mike, due to space limitations, the Black Beast Garage will be open by invitation on several days throughout 2017 to Long Island car clubs and historical societies .

If anyone wishes to attend these events, please send an email to .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address). Mike, you are now on the invitation list.

From Model A Ford Club of Long Island Visits Tucker 1044 at Waterfront at Roslyn

Dave – The original parkway section between Meadowbrook Lodge and the Bethpage Lodge was 22 feet wide. As the parkway grew westward and eastward in 1909, the new roadways were only 16 feet wide. The concrete extensions were later added in the ‘30s.

Greg – It’s difficult to determine what degree the mystery curve is. The curve west of Wheeler bridge #2 is about 45 deg. I’m increasingly believing you have the right location, but the mystery photo was taken just west of Winchester Blvd bridge’s west embankment on the down slope, as the Wheeler farmway bridge is already in the mystery photo on the up slope. The WC Fields movie photo looks very close to the mystery.

The solution search is getting hotter! 

From Mystery Foto #12 Unsolved:Possible Options for this Long Island Motor Parkway Curve- Ca.1928 Update

Howard, you are so generous with your collection and time. It is gratifying to see someone who is enjoying Tucker 1044 as you are. I know that Preston and Vera are smiling down on you.
____________________________________________________________

Howard Kroplick

John, you definitely made me smile this morning!

From Model A Ford Club of Long Island Visits Tucker 1044 at Waterfront at Roslyn

Thank you for having the Model A Ford Club over on Sunday.  Many had not seen your great collection of marvelous automobiles and automobilia.  Its hard to figure which car is my favorite !  They are all so great !

From Model A Ford Club of Long Island Visits Tucker 1044 at Waterfront at Roslyn

The steep embankment on the sides in addition to the sharp turn (some of the guesses above don’t work—this right hand turn is sharper then some of the choices above) and the foliage led me to believe my location guess of entering into Wheatley Hills Golf Course was a very good one, however as per our earlier post of this section of LIMP I forgot that this location had the concrete extensions on both sides which made me wonder…..

Why were these concrete extensions only in certain places and not others? Or were they added at a later date to some locations? And does this information help us narrow down this mystery location?

From Mystery Foto #12 Unsolved:Possible Options for this Long Island Motor Parkway Curve- Ca.1928 Update

Thanks Joe!
A few things I wanted to add since I spent 3 cross-eyed days looking at 1920’s tree patterns at every turn of the LIMP!

If you look at either side of the downward sloping roadway in the mystery photo, there appears to be open fields. This matches the 1924 aerial showing the Wheeler farms to the north and south. The downward slope that appears to be a bridge embankment would make sense before that turn, possibly being the Wheeler farmway bridge for those possible farm fields. A clear, defined tree line stretches very broadly from border to border in the distance of the mystery photo without a man-made structure in sight. This tree line starts directly on the outside edge of the curve. Again, all this matching the 1924 aerial. All the depth of field and perspectives seem to match, (taking into account lens length as photographers can tell you). With the NYCmap link where the original, interactive aerial can be found, you can zoom in very tight on this section and I even went so far as to try to identify the smaller, individual trees, but smaller trees can differ between 1924-1928-ish. I’ve been still trying to match other areas of the parkway, but the more I look at the other turns, the more I’m convinced it’s probably West of the Wheeler bridge.

From Mystery Foto #12 Unsolved:Possible Options for this Long Island Motor Parkway Curve- Ca.1928 Update

This was the original LIMP Winchester Blvd bridge (railroad type) as it was.

From Mystery Foto #12 Unsolved:Possible Options for this Long Island Motor Parkway Curve- Ca.1928 Update