Vanderbilt Cup Races

I convinced myself this was the Oyster Bay Branch, and apparently I’m the only one who thought so : ) lol ! A tower is next to both the Mineola & East Williston overpasses. Similar bridge designs, and both double track. Thought the train was blocking the view of the 2 towers on the east side, the 3rd tower crosses to the west side before IU Willets, the towers continue north & west side of the tracks.

From Mystery Foto #18 Solved : A Train Passing the Mineola LIRR Motor Parkway Bridge Heading East

Sam - An amazing answer without even trying! I too saw the red flags on those low poles. I’ve witnessed them before in other sections of early Long Island. Great stuff!

From Mystery Foto #18 Solved : A Train Passing the Mineola LIRR Motor Parkway Bridge Heading East

Agreeing with Al & Greg, that 1 image is the demolition of a bridge, possibly the LIMP HWY BRIDGE in 1944 ( above sketch ). Glad Otto took an interest with it all.

Great closeup Greg, didn’t realize the high walls for the POLO BRIDGE. Makes sense with the horses. Wish I could make out these walls on the BRIDGE still remaining in Howard’s 1951 image.

Thought the 3 images below would be interesting to see. Years 1919 & 1928 show the LIMP HWY BRIDGE, prior to the POLO BRIDGE being constructed. Then 1937, those high walls are evident.

From Updated: Mystery Foto #17 Solved: The Meadowbrook Polo Club Bridge over the Motor Parkway

Nice event - lots of cars.

From Today's Classic Car Tribute Cruise to NUMC, East Meadow, 5:00 pm Monday, May 4, 2020

Below:
Semaphore, courtesy PBase.com
Big Boy 4-8-8-4, courtesy TrainsAreFun.com

From Mystery Foto #18 Solved : A Train Passing the Mineola LIRR Motor Parkway Bridge Heading East

There were three bridges that went over railroad tracks on the Motor Parkway’s forty-five mile run; Oyster Bay-LIRR bridge in East Williston, Mineola-LIRR bridge, and the Central Ave-LIRR bridge in Bethpage (Central Park). Almost certain this view is looking west on the Mineola line (train heading east). Sunlight shadow below the head lamp is pointing north. #112 steam just passed the Mineola-LIRR Bridge and is exactly 1/4 mile east of it at the semaphore (today there is a lighted tower in its place). It continues to ascend towards the Glen Cove Rd trestle, just 400 feet west of it. Photo was taken before 1955 when steam was replaced with diesel. This type semaphore was still being used until 1962. Looking forward to this week’s answers. I love trains!
Below:
Oyster Bay-LIRR bridge, courtesy Ron Ridolph
Mineola-LIRR bridge, courtesy Ron Ridolph
Central Ave-LIRR bridge, courtesy VanderbiltCupRaces.com

From Mystery Foto #18 Solved : A Train Passing the Mineola LIRR Motor Parkway Bridge Heading East

Greg O. What a tremendous amount of detailed research you have done, thanks for sharing. Regarding your comments about the horses moving between the dirt path and the east bridge, first, i never picked it up.  My first thought was…Nah, why would they do that, horses don’t like hard solid surfaces. Thinking more about it I now believe you have it right. In April 1933 the Town of Hempstead officially abandoned the Sheep’s Pen Road after BEING FENCED OFF FOR SEVERAL YEARS !  It makes sense that the approaches to the the Sheep’s Pen Road bridge would blocked off as the bridge was the Town’s responsibility. Your scenario makes absolute sense. Again, great digging and enlightenment

From Updated: Mystery Foto #17 Solved: The Meadowbrook Polo Club Bridge over the Motor Parkway

I spent most of this weekend with what little time I had looking at the twin Roosevelt Field bridges and dint leave myself any time for this one, so I’ll just guess and go off some answers from a similar mystery photo from Feb 2016, of what looks to be the same model of train.

-Identify the exact location of the train, the LIRR track and orientation of the photographer. Provide a rationale.

Way off in the distance to the left of the bridge and just above the back of the train, there appears to be a very faint image of some sort of transmission antenna. I know of one near the Mineola LIRR bridge over the main line tracks, so my guess is this is down the tracks East of the bridge with the photographer looking West down the tracks. I posted a shot of the bridge coming down in the 80’s with the base of that possible tower in the removal photo. If I knew where marker ‘203’ was located, I’d have the exact spot….

-Identify the train.

Looks to be the same as the 2016 mystery photo, so the guess would be a LIRR G-5 class ( 4-6-0 ) steam engine

-Name all the bridges that went over the Motor Parkway.

If by this, the question means ‘highway bridges’ meaning the LIMP went under the crossroads, the list would be West to East;  Creedmoor bridge, Smith Farmway bridge, Old Courthouse Rd bridge, Wheatley Golfway bridge, Jericho Tpke bridge,  Old Country Rd bridge, Mayan ruins, the twin bridges at Roosevelt Field, Stewart Ave bridge, Carmen Ave bridge, Jerusalem Ave bridge, Bloomingdale Rd bridge, Nibbe Farmway bridge, Powell Ave bridge, Clody farmway bridge, Ezekiel Smith farmway bridge (Maxess)....and I think that’s all of the ‘highway’ bridges.

-What was the approximate year of the Mystery Foto? Provide a rationale.

No rationale here except that It has a similar ‘feel’ to the 2016 mystery photo and will guess the same year as that and say 1949.

From Mystery Foto #18 Solved : A Train Passing the Mineola LIRR Motor Parkway Bridge Heading East

Is this rain or shine?

From Today's Classic Car Tribute Cruise to NUMC, East Meadow, 5:00 pm Monday, May 4, 2020

Location of train - A eastbound freight on track#2 Mineola/Carle place border just
                    west of Glen Cove Rd. at westbound signal 203.  The signal is
                    20.3 miles east of the Long Island City portals.  Mineola station
                    is 19 miles east of LIC.  Eastbound signals numbers are
                    displayed in even numbers and westbound in odd.  The
                    photographer is facing west towards Mineola and looking
                    at the LIMP bridge. You can see in the photo on the south side
                    of the tracks and bridge a Lilco high tension tower.
Train - westbound freight being pulled by engine #112, a 1916 Brooks/Alco H10

All bridges over LIMP -  Vanderbilt farmway
                          Smith farmway
                          Old Courthouse
                          Wheatly Hills
                          Jericho turnpike
                          Old Country Rd
                          Roosevelt Field
                          Polo field
                          Stewart Ave
                          Carman Ave
                          Jerusalem Ave
                          Bloomingdale Rd
                          Plainview Rd
                          Botto farmway
                          Smith/ Maxess Rd
                          Ruland Rd
                          Wellwood Ave
Year of Photo - early 1940’s the installation of the Lilco tower, installed after the
                close of the LIMP.  There is a lack of buildings as compared to the
                1950 my Nassau photo.
                 
Attached Photos #1 looking south along LIMP and a view of the Lilco tower on
                    the south side of the tracks.
                  #2 looking north along LIMP toward old bridge location and
                    the Lilco tower
                  #3 photo of sister engine # 110 a 1916 Brooks/Alco

From Mystery Foto #18 Solved : A Train Passing the Mineola LIRR Motor Parkway Bridge Heading East

Al, I also now agree with your assessment of the second bridge photo being demolition and not construction.
Aside from your comments on the visible reinforcing wire, the lower, smooth part of the abutment looks to be weathered with even some mature foliage at the very lower edge of the photo. There also appears to be something painted on the abutment on the lower right but partially obscured by a wooden post. My best guess is that it original wording was ‘post no bills’, which of course would not already be painted on a partially constructed abutment. The wooden scaffolding in the background were not forms as originally thought, but probably placed to avoid the embankment soil from collapsing once the abutment is completely removed

From Updated: Mystery Foto #17 Solved: The Meadowbrook Polo Club Bridge over the Motor Parkway

Your theory of the the new polo fields bridge to the East side of the old Roosevelt Field bridge would dictate that there had to be some sort of worn path crossing the dirt path leading to, and away from the Roosevelt bridge. Horses could walk the dirt path to the West of the new paved road, then, just before the rise of the South embankment, or just after the rise of the North embankment, they cross over the dirt Roosevelt Field pathway towards the polo fields. Below are two spots I have identified them possibly doing just that. See below in my photos, the spots where this could have been are crudely marked by my arrows.
But I think the most conclusive are the demo plans;
You can see the differences in sizes of the bridges on the plans as well as the blown up aerial I posted in my last comment above. On the plans of the proposed bridge to demolish, the smaller of the two bridges shows horse gates at the end of the North embankment of the East bridge. Interestingly, there are are gates leading out to the East, North, and yes, to the West towards the polo fields. Property ownership marked on the plans determines direction.
So, I think this may the most proof of your theory that we have so far. While illogical to place the bridges on the opposite sides of where their destinations are, I am now leaning towards your thinking.

From Updated: Mystery Foto #17 Solved: The Meadowbrook Polo Club Bridge over the Motor Parkway

Al, as promised after our discussion, I looked into this further, but like you, didn’t come up with any conclusive documentation, but the more I look at various photos, I do see a little more evidence to help your theory. Honestly, I was a bit skeptical when you first said it, but here’s my 2 cents since at the moment, there’s no definite conclusion.

As I mentioned when we spoke, I had doubts about the Erie paving hopper being on the North side of the bridge. I also noticed that the hopper looked like it was beyond the existing bridge behind the new bridge being built in the photo. Also, looking at photos and aerials from 1936ish, the new VCR racetrack is on the East side and the polo fields are to the West side, logic would say it just doesn’t make sense to place the new bridge intended for the polo fields that are to the East side of the old Roosevelt Field bridge. Also, a grass/dirt path from the stables to the polo fields seemed more appropriate than a paved road for the horses. In the blow up of the twin bridges below, I noticed the West bridge was slightly wider and had much taller sides which also seemed more appropriate for horses as well. Looking at the next photo below, it also looked like a straight paved road to the VCR racetrack, and the dirt path from the West bridge came off the bridge and curved slightly right into the parameter road of the polo fields. Initially, I theorized that they paved a new road leading to the old bridge, (replacing the split path/road seen in the 1927 Lindbergh photo), to update the old 1908 bridge into a new entrance for the new VCR racetrack. The hopper for paving materials being closer to the older, existing bridge supported that thought in my mind. (Thereby placing that hopper on the South side of the LIMP in the McCamish photo) However, a few things popped up that further support your narrative and not mine. I think some of the most conclusive evidence can be found on the demo plans that Art had dug up below. See my next post with further photos…

From Updated: Mystery Foto #17 Solved: The Meadowbrook Polo Club Bridge over the Motor Parkway

Identify the exact location of the train, the LIRR track and orientation of the photographer. Provide a rationale.
The train is west of the Motor Parkway bridge but east of the Nassau Interlocking in Mineola on the LIRR Main Line.  Based on attached photos (signal 203 is shown on the north side of the tracks, and the caption on the 1978 photo indicating looking east) the electrical tower would be on the south side.  As such I would say the train is going east and the photographer is looking west - the train is on Track #1.

Identify the train. HO 112
Name all the bridges that went over the Motor Parkway.
What was the approximate year of the Mystery Foto? Provide a rationale.  1940s

From Mystery Foto #18 Solved : A Train Passing the Mineola LIRR Motor Parkway Bridge Heading East

Howard, While we are still on the Otto McCamish family photos. Regarding the second bridge photo taken by Otto McCamish. I think it’s a photo of the demolition of one of the embankments.  Note the wire reinforcing is visible and attached to a jagged angled edge of concrete The wire reinforcing is not visible during the pouring of cement. That’s only possible with demolition. Note the exterior of the embankment wall at the bottom of the photo. not exactly a good pour.

From Updated: Mystery Foto #17 Solved: The Meadowbrook Polo Club Bridge over the Motor Parkway

Howard,  Great mystery photo, never saw it before. Question, on the right side of the image there is a pole. At the top there is what looks like an arrow pointing straight up. Any idea if the arrow was movable and supplied the train operator with information?

From Mystery Foto #18 Solved : A Train Passing the Mineola LIRR Motor Parkway Bridge Heading East

Frank,The reasoning for my opinion that the east bridge is the Meadow Brook Club bridge is based mostly on the 1936 photo and the 1929 Lindbergh photo. The 1936 photo clearly only one well defined, paved, and new looking road to Stewart Ave. Yes, in that photo there is an unpaved pathway on the west side of the paved road also leading to Stewart Ave. But in the 1929 Lindbergh photo that road doesn’t go straight to Stewart Ave. I believe that path, north from Stewart Ave to the west bridge, was created by the horses and their handlers walking from the stables that were located on the Meadow BrooK Club property south of Stewart Ave ,. to the new polo fields. When the Meadow Brook Club purchased the polo field property and the strip south to Stewart Ave., they also purchased from Lannin, property south of Stewart Ave reaching to the LIRR tracks This gave the Club a straight direct approach over the tracks to the fields. While typing this, it occurred to me that approach is probably today, without any research, today’s Endo Blvd. Anyone ?

From Updated: Mystery Foto #17 Solved: The Meadowbrook Polo Club Bridge over the Motor Parkway

I think it is a train going east into HICKSVILLE with th bridge near mineola in the background

My guess

From Mystery Foto #18 Solved : A Train Passing the Mineola LIRR Motor Parkway Bridge Heading East

I think we’re looking east on the LIRR Mainline in Mineola between Roslyn Road and Glen Cove Road. I believe that’s the only LIMP bridge that crosses over two tracks at the same time. Not sure, but I think that’s a G5-S locomotive. Since steam service ended on the LIRR around 1955, I think this photo is a little earlier, maybe the year I was born: 1947. Near as I could determine, there were 17 bridges that went over the LIMP: Creedmoor; Smith Farmway; Old Courthouse Road; Wheatley Hills “Golfway”; Jericho Turnpike (Mineola); Old Country Road; Meadow Brook Polo Club; Roosevelt Field (Sheeps Pen Road); Stewart Avenue; Carman Avenue; Jerusalem Avenue; Bloomingdale Road; Nibbe Farmway; Powell Avenue; Plainview Road; Botto Farmway; Exekiel Smith Farmway (Maxess Rd.).

From Mystery Foto #18 Solved : A Train Passing the Mineola LIRR Motor Parkway Bridge Heading East

I have a vaguely related question.  Into the 1990s, there was a building that could be seen from Merrick Avenue sort of near Stewart Ave. and the Meadowbrook Parkway interchange.  It may also have been vaguely visible from the Meadowbrook parkway.  It appeared to be abandoned, and seemed to be made of brownish yellow brick and maybe tile.  Does anyone know what it was?  Was it connected somehow to the Polo Club?  I had the impression that it was an old nightclub, but I may be mistaken.  It was torn down sometime in the 1990s, I think.
______________________________________________________________________
Howard Kroplick
Tim, is it one of these buildings: https://www.vanderbiltcupraces.com/blog/article/mystery_friday_foto_33_yet_another_spectacular_aerial_of_the_long_island_mo

From Updated: Mystery Foto #17 Solved: The Meadowbrook Polo Club Bridge over the Motor Parkway