Vanderbilt Cup Races

... and the De Palma’s 7 was a remnant of the Lowell Trophy on 8 September. A Fiat with nr. 7 (see page from Motor Age 1909 of 16 Sept., middle right) was driven into 4th place by Edward Parker. The protection grid on this car carries a 7 with the same shape as the Riverhead car. Apparently De Palma used this car in the Long Island stock car race.

From UPDATE 3/22/23; Mystery Friday Foto # 11 Solved: Driver Frank Lescault in his #7 Palmer Singer during the 1909 Long Island Stock Car Derby

Great finds Ariejan! Thanks for unraveling the mystery!

From UPDATE 3/22/23; Mystery Friday Foto # 11 Solved: Driver Frank Lescault in his #7 Palmer Singer during the 1909 Long Island Stock Car Derby

Well, I guess I have solved the dance of the 7’s now. The 7 on the Rainier was still a remnant from the 24-Hour race at Brighton Beach motordrome on 27 and 28 August, where Louis Disbrow and Lund with their Rainier achieved second place (see photo). On two photo pages from Motor Age of 7 October 1909 the solution of the other 7’s becomes visible: De Palma, driving his victorious Fiat with nr.3 on the sides of the hood still had a very visible 7 on the protection grid and also on the sides of the chair (!), clearly causing confusion with the journalists. The 7 on the Palmer-Singer is obviously identical to the one on the photo uploaded earlier. So the caption on the photo with the ‘Quick change of tires’ was meant for the Fiat and not the Palmer-Singer. Remains to find the origin of the 7 on the Fiat ...

From UPDATE 3/22/23; Mystery Friday Foto # 11 Solved: Driver Frank Lescault in his #7 Palmer Singer during the 1909 Long Island Stock Car Derby

The shape of the radiators is difficult to compare, because the car on the right has a protection grid in front. Bet there seems to be a difference in height of the rad filler tubes, and also the seats have different back heights. So presumably at some moment (before the race?) there was a change of cars.

From UPDATE 3/22/23; Mystery Friday Foto # 11 Solved: Driver Frank Lescault in his #7 Palmer Singer during the 1909 Long Island Stock Car Derby

Greg - though similar shapes, the two radiators are different. It’s wild how they chose the Mattituck location to race. As you mentioned, getting there was a task by itself. Not even the proposed Motor Parkway extension to its Riverhead terminus reached this far east! Perhaps the lure of local wine vineyards won the decision

From UPDATE 3/22/23; Mystery Friday Foto # 11 Solved: Driver Frank Lescault in his #7 Palmer Singer during the 1909 Long Island Stock Car Derby

From Greg O.

Ariejan-
Looking at the radiator comparison, do you think these were the same car?

From UPDATE 3/22/23; Mystery Friday Foto # 11 Solved: Driver Frank Lescault in his #7 Palmer Singer during the 1909 Long Island Stock Car Derby

From Greg O.

Ariejan, no other races in that area that I know of. It’s a miracle the Derby happened there at all for one race considering that extreme easterly area of Long Island was so rural, with little, to no public transportation access in 1909. 
In your second photo, while not a huge, popular race that had few spectators, the grandstands are completely empty which often times indicates a practice run as well. It would be a big coincidence, but maybe the car ran as #7 in a previous race? Then a new #7 painted for the Derby? Possibly a different car? (notice the ‘U’ shaped headlight mounts are there for one photo, gone in the next) Without definitive proof, that’s a longshot, but guesses are all we have at the moment.

From UPDATE 3/22/23; Mystery Friday Foto # 11 Solved: Driver Frank Lescault in his #7 Palmer Singer during the 1909 Long Island Stock Car Derby

Greg, you’re right about the location, funny I didn’t notice that! Were there any other events at the same location? And if not, why change a 7 into a 7?

From UPDATE 3/22/23; Mystery Friday Foto # 11 Solved: Driver Frank Lescault in his #7 Palmer Singer during the 1909 Long Island Stock Car Derby

Ariejan-
Looking at the grandstands behind the Palmer-Singer, they are a match in both photos, so it may be safe to assume they are the same locations on different occasions.

From UPDATE 3/22/23; Mystery Friday Foto # 11 Solved: Driver Frank Lescault in his #7 Palmer Singer during the 1909 Long Island Stock Car Derby

As I found out, some of the photos of the #7 Rainier already appeared in The Automobile of September 16. So these were taken at least weeks before the race, which confirms my hypothesis. Maybe the 7 was painted on the car just for the photo session to create the impression of a race ...  Another thing is that the photo of the Palmer-Singer I uploaded before is incorrect too! Uploaded here a photo from an account of the race in The Motor World of October 7, where the number clearly is different. So where was my earlier photo taken?? The past is full of question marks ...

From UPDATE 3/22/23; Mystery Friday Foto # 11 Solved: Driver Frank Lescault in his #7 Palmer Singer during the 1909 Long Island Stock Car Derby

From Greg O.

Great then and now shot Steve!

Ariejan-
After examining all the Rainier photos in the archives, I can confirm, the caption on this photo is incorrect and that is either the #1 or #8 Rainier with an old number.
In fact, Louis Disbrow drove the #M32 Rainier in the 1908 Vanderbilt Cup Meadowbrook Sweepstakes finishing second. It is entirely possible the same Rainier was raced in the Sweepstakes and a year later by Disbrow in the L.I. Stock Car Derby

https://www.vanderbiltcupraces.com/blog/article/thursday_july_29_2010starting_lineup-_the_1908_meadow_brook_sweepstakes

From UPDATE 3/22/23; Mystery Friday Foto # 11 Solved: Driver Frank Lescault in his #7 Palmer Singer during the 1909 Long Island Stock Car Derby

Sorry, it’s ROTHMANN’S

From Greg O’s Garage: Rare photos from the collection of Henry Austin Clark, Jr. Part 2

Greg - I have known about this F.R.P. auto from an earlier time and that it was built in Port Jefferson, but where in Port Jeff.?? I now know where! When I have the time, (next Hillclimb?) I’ll will check it out. Thanks!

From Greg O's Garage; The F.R.P. automobile built in Port Jefferson

The Rothman’s bought the East Norwich Inn (a tavern) that goes back to the 1700s in 1907 when no VCR race that year and the last of the racecourse that went thru East Norwich in 1905-06. The family sold the place in early 1970s to developer who built the Motel behind the restaurant, the sold to Burt Bacharach the composer and his Angie Dickerson the actress and the whole complex was known as Burt Bacharach Inn. They kept it for some time then sold to Anthony Sotto who mutilated the restaurant to become Boulder Creek a mall type restaurant that didn’t do well in snooty North Shore location. It was sold to group who had try to recreate the old Rothman’s front (almost), now known as Chas. Rothman Inn.

From Greg O’s Garage: Rare photos from the collection of Henry Austin Clark, Jr. Part 2

These photos are from the June 2, 2019, Greenwich Concours D’Elegance event in
Greenwich CT.

From Mystery Friday Foto #7 Solved: The former FIAT Lingotto Factory in Turin, Italy

Steven Vilardi- :D, it’s astonishing how a race track on a roof top could be had, but they did it! Amazing

From Mystery Friday Foto #7 Solved: The former FIAT Lingotto Factory in Turin, Italy

I was out in Mattituck today and thought some of you might be interested in a current view of the most recent mystery photo.

From UPDATE 3/22/23; Mystery Friday Foto # 11 Solved: Driver Frank Lescault in his #7 Palmer Singer during the 1909 Long Island Stock Car Derby

Ariejan-
I see your point and it is well-taken. Also, to your point, the font of the ‘7’ is different. I will look into this further.

From UPDATE 3/22/23; Mystery Friday Foto # 11 Solved: Driver Frank Lescault in his #7 Palmer Singer during the 1909 Long Island Stock Car Derby

I’m sorry to stir things up, but this is a curious photo. The 7 on the car is obvious, but the car itself is not a Palmer-Singer but a Rainier. Attached a photo of the Palmer-Singer with nr.7, of which the radiator is clearly different from the roundish, Hotchkiss-like radiator of the Rainier. Attached a photo from The Automobile with the same #7 Rainier. Two Rainier’s competed in this derby, with nrs. 1 and 8, so where does the nr.7 come from? A difference with both Rainier’s during the race is the presence of front lights, normally not present in daylight road races. So my theory is that the photo’s with nr. 7 were taken during practice, the number from a previous race not having been removed yet. Unfortunately I couldn’t find an earlier race with a Rainier carrying nr. 7, so at present the mystery remains for me partly unresolved.

From UPDATE 3/22/23; Mystery Friday Foto # 11 Solved: Driver Frank Lescault in his #7 Palmer Singer during the 1909 Long Island Stock Car Derby

Mattituck on the north fork is far from any Vanderbilt Cup Race or Sweepstake Race held on Long Island. Looking forward to this week’s answers

From UPDATE 3/22/23; Mystery Friday Foto # 11 Solved: Driver Frank Lescault in his #7 Palmer Singer during the 1909 Long Island Stock Car Derby