Vanderbilt Cup Races

Howard, I am the Schenectady County and City Historian, located where ALCO’s main HQ was.  Is there a way I could get a copy of your video you did on the various models of ALCO cars.  I am doing a piece on ALCO for my blog.  Thanks.

From New Book from Howard Kroplick and Al Velocci "The Long Island Motor Parkway"

Hi J:

Great comments!

As you noted, the names of the roads in this area have clearly changed over the last 101 years. The above pdf article on the course as published in Auto Topics on August 8, 1908 probably adds to the confusion.

I will continue to research this area and show my results over the next week or two. I believe I have also just found a 1908 race scene shot at the interscetion of the Bethpage Lodge entrance and Round Swamp Road.

Enjoy,

Howard

From The Public Roads of the 1908 Vanderbilt Cup Race Course

Al, Al, good point! Unfortunately, I have never seen a photo of the Motor Parkway trucks. Does anyone have one? If so, please email me at .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address).

From Trucks, the Motor Parkway and the Vanderbilt Cup Races

Howard, Howard, Howard! At your presentation before ATHS, did you mention that the Parkway owned several trucks over the years that were used by their road repair crew? The most relevant being a Fulton Truck which was built in Farmingdale and purchased in the early 1920’s. There are only 2 Fulton trucks known to have survived, one of them a 1918 model, is at the Cradle of Aviation Museum at Mitchel Field.  Al Velocci

From Trucks, the Motor Parkway and the Vanderbilt Cup Races

JD, You are very funny! Walter and Sam are correct.

Although the Indy Hall of Fame Museum is fantastic, I believe their description of the Premier racer is inaccurate.

As Sam notes, the first Vanderbilt Cup Race was not first organized by William K. Vanderbilt, Jr. until January 1904. Accordingly it would be impossible to “design and build” the “1903” racer for the 1904 Race.

In addition, it is well-documented that the Premier racer was built for the second Vanderbilt Cup Race held in 1905. This 1905 Premier ad protested that the racer was not allowed to compete because it did not meet the weight requirements.

http://www.vanderbiltcupraces.com/vcrsys/Images/Alco/04-01-2007-16-27-13-225_edited-1-2.jpg

From Recent Photos from the Indy 500 Hall of Fame Museum

From JD:

That’s a weighty question.  Do you want the truth, the hole truth and nothing but the truth?

I know this isn’t THE answer, but I’m sure it’s a lot or fun.  And who can’t like puntification?
jd

From Recent Photos from the Indy 500 Hall of Fame Museum

From Sam B:

The Premier premise is false; a car could NOT have been designed in 1903 for any Vandy Cup since there wasn’t any such then.

From Recent Photos from the Indy 500 Hall of Fame Museum

One place says built for the first Vanderbilt Cup Race (1904) and the other says designed for the 1905 race.  Walter

From Recent Photos from the Indy 500 Hall of Fame Museum

I am interested in the names of the roads (both then and now) that made up the eastern end of the public roads for the 1908 race. The LIMP ended at Round Swamp Road, and the race headed north.

Present Road names:
http://www.vanderbiltcupraces.com/index.php/site/picture/map_of_the_1908_course
indicates that the road now called Round Swamp Road was travelled only briefly, and the course followed what is now Old Bethpage Road (which now, at least, briefly merges into Plainview Road just south of Old Country Road). North of Old Country Road, the course follows what is currently known as Manetto Hill Road. At Colyer’s Corner, the course turned right onto what is now Woodbury Road & then left onto Jericho Tpk.

Names in 1908:
http://books.google.com/books?id=oZAJn-d4eMkC&pg=PA54&lpg=PA54&dq;=“colyer’s+corner”&source=bl&ots=v5nxNqTtJx&sig=p0kT0_pg7l44Oo1Ru7wVF5Hu8mE&hl=en&ei=XdoSS-O2N4aqtgOTsJzzBw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CAgQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=“colyer’s corner”&f=false
indicates that the road from Hicksville to Colyer’s Corner was called Woodbury Road in 1908 (as it is still today). It is very likely the section after Colyer’s Corner to Jericho Tpke also was called Woodbury even in 1908.

The same source suggests that 1> Manetto Hill Road and Old Bethpage Road were (either together or partly) called Plainview Road in 1908 - or 2> one passed “through Plainview” Road (meaning “crossed”) when heading to the Bethpage Lodge. However, the use of “through” for Round Swamp Rd indicates the former interpretation is more likely. However, the road now called Plainview Rd is clearly on the 1908 map & was travelled only briefly (between current Old Bethpage & Old Country roads). Various other roads were also called Plainview Rd even in the 1960s. I think it likely that current Manetto Hill Rd may have been called Plainview Rd in 1908.

Note that on the 1908 map:

1> Round Swamp Road is not shown to extend to Old Country Road (though it might), and the map suggests a sharp right might be needed to stay on Round Swamp Rd (which race course does not do) when heading north.

2>Old Country Rd is not shown (or does not exist) between Central Park/Gerhard Rd and Manetto Hill Rd

3> Until 1936, current Old Bethpage was called Bethpage, and current Bethpage was called Central Park. Old Bethpage Road would likely not have that name until 1936 at least.

4> Sources (NY Times, I think) indicate a sharp turn at Plainview (likely at point near phone near Old Country Rd) - but map does not show any turn there

From The Public Roads of the 1908 Vanderbilt Cup Race Course

Thanks Howard for the link and kind words - much appreciated.

From Favorite Website: Art's Long Island Motor Parkway Site

I didn’t know these videos existed of the Vanderbilt Cup Races. What a treasure to have for our family. I am the youngest of 5 children of Jacob & Lillie Wagner. William Luttgen was my grandfather. Both my parents are deceased but they would have been so impressed with these videos. Thank you for the incredible research you have done and the wonderful memories you have created for generations to come.

From Driver Profile: William Luttgen Part IV -The 1908 Vanderbilt Cup Race

Hi George:
8:00 PM

http://www.southoldhistoricalsociety.org/new_page_6.htm

Enjoy,

Howard

From The Public Roads of the 1908 Vanderbilt Cup Race Course

Howard,

What time is the presentation on Dec. 8 at the Southold Hist. Soc.?

From The Public Roads of the 1908 Vanderbilt Cup Race Course

Howard
Your continuing accurate documentation of one of the most important events and roads on long island and in American history is sincerely appreciated. It is wonderful to see the people and places that are part of this story getting their long over due recognition they so rightly deserve. Thank you for all of your efforts, please know it is sincerely appreciated.
Walter Gosden
former Vice President, Director, Editor -
The Society of Automotive Historians.
Historian for the Inc. Village of Floral Park.

From A Central Park/Bethpage Postcard from a Motor Parkway Worker

Great pictures of the work in progress.  As a postcard collector, I’ve never seen them.  Fascinating.

From A Central Park/Bethpage Postcard from a Motor Parkway Worker

Howard - thanks for the opportunity to provide comments:

1.  Levittown stretch for all the reasons above and two more - I live about 2 minutes from the grandstand site and there is also a stretch in Levittown before the grandstand site, along Salisbury Park Drive that could be included.  Here’s some more info. on that - http://www.freewebs.com/limparkway/levittownsalisburypkdr.htm

2.  Dead Man’s Curve - best example of how the Motor Parkway was developed including long stretches of the curved banking, many posts in the area, entact pieces of roadway, very tranquil, would possibly limit its current use as a teenage hangout, and maybe the most important, its close to the starting point of the Parkway and the groundbreaking ceremony.

From Opportunity to Provide Input on the Motor Parkway Trail

Howard,
Those are great photos!  Many I have never seen.
Thank you very much.

The riding mechanic on the Oldsmobile was Harry Miller. He of course went on to build some of the most successful Indy race cars of all time.

Lee Stohr

From Starting Lineup: The 1906 American Elimination Trial

Hi Mitch:
At this point, you can not do a search by poster’s name on the website. Maybe in the next upgrade.

Howard

From Motor Parkway from Little Neck Parkway to Marcus Avenue Part II

Thanks for the feedback, so far. More comments and suggestions are very much welcomed.

My favorite section for a pilot section for the MTP (Motor Parkway Trailway) is in Levittown parallel to Orchid Road. The reasons are as follows:

1.  The land is open and free of obstruction and homes and, as noted by Tim, centrally located on Long Island.
2.  It is historically important as a section of the original Motor Parkway opened in October 1908, the site of the Vanderbilt Cup Race grandstand, press box, service pits, Start-Finish Line and even the Long Island Aviation Club. Historical markers would be perfect for this sectionl. An archeological dig could also be set up at the race pits with a local university such as Hofstra.
3.  Sections of the roadway are still there and even two concrete Motor Parkway posts
4.  There is room for bike and car parking
5.  Very important- As noted by Denis, the Levittown residents surrounding this land are 100% in favor of building a greenway park here. It is currently used as a walking path. Every few years the residents fight off land developers who want to build homes on the property.

Here is a film on the area:
http://www.vanderbiltcupraces.com/index.php/blog/article/saturday_june_27_2009_the_levittown_vanderbilt_cup_race_grandstand

Enjoy,

Howard

From Opportunity to Provide Input on the Motor Parkway Trail

I believe some lands in Levittown were sold by the county years ago before the trail effort began, but the developer was unable to get permits to build homes that many local residents thought were too large. I am not sure of the current plans for those lands, but the people would like to see them preserved as open space and trails.

From Opportunity to Provide Input on the Motor Parkway Trail