Vanderbilt Cup Races

I’m constantly amazed at how much knowledge is out there concerning the Vanderbilt Cup Race and its surroundings.  Just to look at that house (above) is amazing.  Many thanks.
Roger

From Then & Now: The Hicksville Old Country Road Turn at the 1909 and 1910 Vanderbilt Cup Races

With only 6 weeks left in 1933, I’d like to know more about W. K. V. III’s untimely death…

Other than that :( ,  Happy Father’s Day and thanks for all you are doing!

From A Father's Day Tribute: Willie K. and His Children

Mercedes owned by Robert Graves.

Robert Graves Garage in Mineola (Searing Avenue).

From Mystery Foto: #20 Solved: Grave's Garage in Mineola- Headquarters for the 1908 #3 Mercedes

Hi Howard, I hope you read this in time, just to let you know that I’m going to the Kingberge Festival,looking foward to seeing you and enjoying a beautiful day. See you in the morning, I’ll be there about 9am

From Alco Black Beast Upcoming 2014 Events

For me, aerials and maps (as well as LIGC estates) are my loves and what I know, so this one required a little research. At least I didn’t have to leave the VCR website! Hence, why I assume you called it a ‘softball’! The journey’s always fun learning about the subject and other things along the way.

I discovered this was the #3 Mercedes driven by Emil Stricker in the 1908 races. In the above photos, it’s without fenders. I assume they were returned to the car for the race since there were quite a few unpaved roads. -Thinking of that sound made me appreciate the fact that Vanderbilt put leather fenders on his Lincoln!

Digging deeper, I came across the blog entry for April 12, 2011 for the ‘The Garages of the Vanderbilt Cup Races’ and the answer for the second question, (as well as amazing full view pics of the garage);

‘One of the largest and most elegant garages was built [in Mineola] by Robert Graves, the owner of Mercedes racers entered in the 1906 and 1908 Vanderbilt Cup Races. Unfortunately, during construction in September 1906, the building collapsed resulting in the death of three workers and twelve more injured.

Happy Father’s Day to all!

From Mystery Foto: #20 Solved: Grave's Garage in Mineola- Headquarters for the 1908 #3 Mercedes

A Pope Toledo driven by Dingley

From Mystery Foto: #20 Solved: Grave's Garage in Mineola- Headquarters for the 1908 #3 Mercedes

The building is of course the garage of Robert Graves in Mineola. The car however is not the #3 Mercedes, participating in the 1906 VC-race (as stated in the post on your site regarding the VC-garages), but the Mercedes with same number driven by Stricker in the 1908 VC-race! Note the high radiator pipe and the outline of the number 3, which differs from the 1906 Mercedes.

From Mystery Foto: #20 Solved: Grave's Garage in Mineola- Headquarters for the 1908 #3 Mercedes

I’‘ll take a crack at it. Is it the 1905 Matheson driven by Ralf Mongini in the American Elimination Race that came in 10th,with an oil problem and wasn’t selected for the american team? that seems too easy

From Mystery Foto: #20 Solved: Grave's Garage in Mineola- Headquarters for the 1908 #3 Mercedes

OK, I am officially flip-flopping.  You’re probably right and my “theory” belongs up there with Ptolemy’s that the Earth is the center of the universe.  A friend directed me to “historicaerials.com”.  There I punched in “500 Vanderbilt Parkway Dix Hills New York” in the search box.  I don’t know what house that is, if any, but I know it would be around where the DPA / Vanderbilt intersection is.  A 1954 aerial clearly still shows a side access road running between the LIMP (or whatever they were calling it in 1954) and DPA…..WEST of DPA.  Probably not still in use in 1954, but still visible in the aerial.  What’s more this road (on/off ramp?) appeared to hit DPA directly across from where Candlewood Path hit DPA on the east side back then.  Thus, it appears to have run BETWEEN the LIMP and the location of the headstones in the historic cemetery.  The cemetery is now fenced in, including where that ramp would have run, so I was thrown off by that.  I didn’t consider that in 1937, or whenever, that fence may not have been up, and that the former LIMP ramp may have been added to the cemetery property by the town after the LIMP closed.  Perhaps the “coolest” revelation in all this is that the current entrance to this historic cemetery is very likely that same former entrance to/from the LIMP, as it is situated directly across from the barrier put up to close the Candlewood Path entrance from DPA (probably in the 1960’s as Jeff above states, as it was still connected to DPA as of 1954 in the aerial).  The entrance does consist of some old pavement but is quickly overtaken by nature as you walk onto the property.  I bet some pavement could be excavated, but digging in a cemetery without permission from the town is probably not a good idea for obvious, and some not so obvious, reasons.  I’m still confused by some of the signage, such as why they thought people should stop there and look east and west before proceeding, unless it was to yield to possible cemetery visitors.  There was no other road near where that sign is according to the aerial I saw.

From CSI Report: Anatomy of a Rare Motor Parkway Dix Hills Photo

I recently visited the area where this southern entrance would have existed to see if I could find any “artifacts”.  I have to say I find it hard to believe that the entrance in the photo could have been west of DPA.  If that’s true, it almost certainly would have cut through the historic cemetery that still exists there, which I also checked out.  That doesn’t seem likely and the “terrain” around that cemetery isn’t very conducive to an off-ramp in any case.  There’s also no parallel road to Vanderbilt Pkwy on the west side of DPA, so that “look east and west” sign would probably have been unnecessary on that side.  Finally, if that entrance / exit is on the west side, the signs should be facing the other way (and the arrows pointing the opposite way), as you would have to make a left to go to Centerport and a right to go to Deer Park when approaching DPA from the west.  The old aerial photos here don’t show any parallel roads west of DPA either.  Candlewood Path is east of DPA, so if that’s the road in question, the southern entrance would have to also be east of DPA, unless that was also a “bridge” over DPA so to speak.  I admit the mystery photo probably is Vanderbilt going over DPA facing west.  I’m just a bit lost on where that southern entrance could have been.  My “theory” is that it was an access road to Candlewood Path (and ultimately DPA) from the LIMP that was located east of DPA, but closer to it than the Vanderbilt / Candlewood intersection of today is…..but that’s just a guess.  I think the “valley” of the present day Vanderbilt Pkwy is somewhat less pronounced in the photo due the bridge that’s there instead of the intersection of today.  None of the aerial photos appear to show evidence of any entrance to the LIMP in that general spot that I’m seeing, but there is no close-up there either so I don’t know.  Some things about this remain a mystery at least to me.  BTW, I lived on it, near Half Hollow road, growing up.

From CSI Report: Anatomy of a Rare Motor Parkway Dix Hills Photo

The reason some of the Europeans did not participate in the 1908 VC was because the European Automobile Clubs which sanctioned the GP races would not allow them to enter.  The ACA originally had the sanctioning rights to all international racing events for America, meaning American cars entering overseas and international entrants racing in America.  The AC of France and Germany determined that the ACA as the sole governing body of the International racing and set out a rule that if they entered any races in America not sanctioned by the ACA they could not race in the Grand Prix races of Europe.  So we had our first American Grand Prix in Savannah.  This changed later by agreement of the ACA and AAA.  Long story.

From FIAT Freakout: The 13 FIATS of the Vanderbilt Cup Races

From Stuart L:

“Mystery Photo#19 was taken at Roosevelt raceway in 1936 during the running of the Revival of the Vanderbilt Cup race which was won by Tazio Nuvolari in an Alfa Romeo 8C2900 beating the Nazi sponsored Auto Union (Audi) driven by Rosemeyer.”

From Mystery Foto #19 Solved: Aerial of the 1936 Vanderbilt Cup Race & Site of Lindbergh's Takeoff

Thanks a lot for the post.Thanks Again. Great.

From Mystery Foto #19 Solved: Aerial of the 1936 Vanderbilt Cup Race & Site of Lindbergh's Takeoff

Howard,  The Links golf Clubhouse can be seen in the background on the right side of Robert Miller’s photo. The long rectangular building you identify as the clubhouse was used as maintainance equipment garage. I believe that motorized golf carts were also stored there. Al

From Mystery Foto #18 Solved: The Links Golf Club's Private Entrance to the Long Island Motor Parkway

Howard, The Links Golf Club clubhouse was located northeast of the Motor Parkway’s entrance to the Club. It was an old farmhouse that at one time was owned by the Willets family. It was located pretty much where the North Hill Village Hall is today.  When the Links residential community was being laid out there was some half-hearted talk about restoring the Willets farmhouse to be used an the Village Hall. As we know , it didn’t happen. Keep up the good work. Al

From Mystery Foto #18 Solved: The Links Golf Club's Private Entrance to the Long Island Motor Parkway

This appears to be a photo of the 1936 Vanderbilt Cup Race looking east. That would make the date 10/12/36. Nine years earlier Lindbergh began his famous flight from the same location at Roosevelt Field / Raceway. I believe thare are trains, planes, and automobiles in the photo and probably a stray horse or two. I think there are 4 Motor Parkway bridges visable but I’m not sure. The Meadowbrook Lodge is near the upper right and there appears to be an old hangar at the left-center area close to Old Country Road.

From Mystery Foto #19 Solved: Aerial of the 1936 Vanderbilt Cup Race & Site of Lindbergh's Takeoff

Thank you, Howard. When I read your comment, I remembered having read it somewhere. And indeed, John Burns describes it very clearly in his excellent book. Sometimes i just need a little push in the right direction!

From FIAT Freakout: The 13 FIATS of the Vanderbilt Cup Races

Ariejan, due to a 1908 dispute between the ACA and the AAA,  the two major sponsoring organizations, most of the international racers competed in the Savannah Grand Prize rather than the Vanderbilt Cup Race.  Eleven of the 17 cars entered in the 1908 Vanderbilt Cup Races were American cars.

From FIAT Freakout: The 13 FIATS of the Vanderbilt Cup Races

What a fantastic web page,especially coming around that sharp turn,I love it,what driving that was,how those cars made that turn without having many accidents is amazing.

From FIAT Freakout: The 13 FIATS of the Vanderbilt Cup Races

The estate shown in the above aerial just north of the course is “Northcort” also labeled “North Hills”. Currentley the Buckley Country Day School -  http://halfpuddinghalfsauce.blogspot.com/2013/03/twin-gardens-in-tudor-setting.html

From Mystery Foto #18 Solved: The Links Golf Club's Private Entrance to the Long Island Motor Parkway