Vanderbilt Cup Races

Mr. Kroplick , The FORD v. FERRARI movie is an absolute must see. Thank you, as always , for your superb blog/website. Jonathan B. Richards in Chesterfield, MO.
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Howard Kroplick

Jonathan, I totally agree!

From The Day We Met Carroll Shelby

Mystery Foto #1…This photo was taken at the very first Indy 500 race on May 30, 1911 in Indianapolis, Indiana. The cars and drivers shown in photo are the Westcott driven by Harry Knight, the Apperson driven by Herb Lytle and the Case driven by Joe Jagersberger.
Cause of accident…A steering rod broke on Jagersberger’s Case racer on the front stretch in full view of the grandstand. Jagersberger skidded along the outside wall and was largely out of the way. What triggered the spectacular carnage that followed was the poor judgment of his riding mechanic, Charles Anderson, who decided to jump out of the car while it still carried speed. He promptly fell on the bricks and under the car’s left rear wheel. Startled, Westcott driver Harry Knight swerved to avoid the man, lost control and skidded into Herb Lytle’s Apperson, which was parked in his pit. Remember that at this time there was no wall separating the pits from the racing surface.
As for a link of the Mystery Foto to the Vanderbilt Cup races…I can only guess that these same Indy 500 drivers also ran in the Vanderbilt race…OR perhaps this photographer also shot photos at the Vanderbilt cup races.

From Mystery Foto #1 Solved: An Accident at the 1911 Indy 500 Race

Two more pics.

From Mystery Foto #1 Solved: An Accident at the 1911 Indy 500 Race

Think I deleted my submission before hitting the button.  Here’s it again.

Identify the race, date and location. Indy 500, Sept. 30, 1911, Indianopolis Speedway

Identify the three race cars and their drivers in the Mystery Foto.
Harry Knight (Westcott), Joe Jagesberger (Case), Herb Lytle (Apperson)

What caused the accident? Knight broke a steering knuckle and its mechanic jumped onto the course, causing Knight to swerve into Lytle. 

Link the Mystery Foto to the Vanderbil Cup Races.  Lytle raced in more Vanderbilt Cup Races than anyone else.

From Mystery Foto #1 Solved: An Accident at the 1911 Indy 500 Race

Art Kleiner

Thanks to Motor Parkway friend, Dave, Mitchell Gardens is remembered by the name of a PSE&G substation on the site.  A new substation named Lindbergh is (or is planned) to be built nearby to accommodate increased local energy demands that Mitchell Gardens and another one on Stewart Avenue couldn’t support.

From Kleiner's Kolumn: Part I-Mapping the Motor Parkway, Mitchel Field & Mitchel Gardens

Answers discovered and copied from firstsuperspeedway.com;

-Identify the race, date and location.
This shot captures the biggest single accident at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway in the first Indianapolis 500 in 1911.

-Identify the three race cars and their drivers in the Mystery Foto.
The accident occurred around lap 90 and involved Harry Knight, Joe Jagersberger,  and Herb Lytle.

-What caused the accident?
“A steering rod broke on Jagersberger’s Case racer on the front stretch in full view of the grandstand. Jagersberger skidded along the outside wall and was largely out of the way. What triggered the spectacular carnage that followed was the poor judgment of his riding mechanic, Charles Anderson, who decided to jump out of the car while it still carried speed. He promptly fell on the bricks and under the car’s left rear wheel. Startled, Westcott driver Harry Knight swerved to avoid the man, lost control and skidded into Herb Lytle’s Apperson, which was parked in his pit. Remember that at this time there was no wall separating the pits from the racing surface.

In this photo, we see the #7 car of Knight and the overturned #35 Apperson of Lytle. The other identifiable machine is the #18 Fiat of Eddie Hearne, which was also damaged but was able to continue. We can only assume he happened to make a pit stop at the time of the collision. This incident is blamed at least in part for the scoring confusion that also factored into controversy at the finish as inexperienced officials were distracted from tracking cars and drawn to the melee.”

-Link the Mystery Foto to the Vanderbil Cup Races.
Herb Lytle participated in more races associated with the Vanderbilt Cup Races (6) than any other driver.

From Mystery Foto #1 Solved: An Accident at the 1911 Indy 500 Race

#35 Lyttle in an Apperson
#7 Knight in a Westcott
#8 Jagersberger in a Case (who made cars I believe til ‘24, then went full tractor mode)

Indy 500 1911 on the main straight and into the pits.

I believe, from a very faulty memory, it was caused by a steering knuckle collapsing on the Case. 

It appears Herb Lyttle was the only driver to compete in the inaugural 1904 Vanderbilt Cup, competing in 6 total as well as the inaugural Indy 500, and the Appersons competed in ‘09 and ‘10 Vanderbilt.

From Mystery Foto #1 Solved: An Accident at the 1911 Indy 500 Race

A beautiful example in a stunning color. Don’t know if it’s Mrs. Tucker’s preferred blue dress color ( l believe that wasn’t produced), but the car looks great as it is finished. Thanks again for sharing these photos.
Happy New Year to all of our Vanderbilt friends!

From Hemmings Blog: Tuckers are more popular than ever, and this 6,300-mile car going to auction is proof

Jim - still have the program?

From Ads From the Long Island Automobile Club 1902 Offical Program "One-Hundred Mile Endurance Test"

The Hotel Ormond was built in 1887, opened in 1888, was bought by Flagler in 1890, and greatly expanded, becoming one of the largest wooden structures in the world, and only demolished in 1992.  The property stretched from the Halifax River (the Intracoastal Waterway) to the Atlantic.  All that remains is the cupola, on the other side in your photo (see attached), now the centerpiece of Fortunato Park, across the street from the hotel site.  Now, whatever might that spoked-wheel contrivance at far right be?  Doesn’t look quite right for just a bicycle.  Sam, III

From Mystery Foto #52 Solved: Willie K. at the Ormond Hotel during the 1904 Ormond-Daytona Beach Races

Nice Photos of Willie K. who was obviously a mover and a shaker.
However, let’s not forget Bostonian Herbert Bowden, who beat everyone in 1904 with his huge (overweight) twin-engine Mercedes “Flying Dutchman”. Another important Bostonian in those days was William “Billy” Wallace, who was s friend of my Grand-mother on Nantucket. Billy backed Louis Chevrolet, who drove Wallace’s big F.I.A.T. in the Vanderbilt Cup races.

From Mystery Foto #52 Solved: Willie K. at the Ormond Hotel during the 1904 Ormond-Daytona Beach Races

Mystery Foto #52… Isn’t that Willie K almost dead center just left of the white column? He has his hands in his pockets and wearing a motoring cap.
CanT answer the rest of this one,

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Howard Kroplick

That’s him!

From Mystery Foto #52 Solved: Willie K. at the Ormond Hotel during the 1904 Ormond-Daytona Beach Races

Savanna GA 1910? US Grand Prize , or 1911? Or Ormond FL? Willie K was the honorary referee at an earler 1908 event in Savanna . No idea where he is , not really a Willie K spotter

From Mystery Foto #52 Solved: Willie K. at the Ormond Hotel during the 1904 Ormond-Daytona Beach Races

Caught off guard, I quickly misidentified Selfridge Ave on the old aerial. Thanks Lee for clarifying the history of this area.

From Kleiner's Kolumn: Part I-Mapping the Motor Parkway, Mitchel Field & Mitchel Gardens

I have no idea.  But the wheelchairs in the left side of the photo (and possibly another on the right side, although partially obstructed) suggest the building may be a convalescent home or hospital.

From Mystery Foto #52 Solved: Willie K. at the Ormond Hotel during the 1904 Ormond-Daytona Beach Races

Smack in the middle, seated.

From Mystery Foto #52 Solved: Willie K. at the Ormond Hotel during the 1904 Ormond-Daytona Beach Races

Thanks Lee.  I probably pulled the photo from a previous post which might have been incorrect or I misread the date.  In any case, thanks for your input which I’ll note in the post.  Happy Holidays!

From Kleiner's Kolumn: Part I-Mapping the Motor Parkway, Mitchel Field & Mitchel Gardens

Since we’re referencing the great Winton-Ford race here.

Did they ever locate the race’s lost crystal punch bowl trophy?

I remember a big reward and nationwide search for it in time for Fords 100=year anniv. with no luck. ....Any news since?
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Howard Kroplick

Bill, I believe it is still lost.

From Mystery Foto #51 Solved: The 1917 Winton House Car Owned by James Melton

Willie was short so he might be either of the two fellows up front with their hands in their pockets.  Sure looks like the old Grand Union Hotel in Saratoga Springs.  Others?  Well, one of the two WASN’T Willie!  :·)  Sam, III

From Mystery Foto #52 Solved: Willie K. at the Ormond Hotel during the 1904 Ormond-Daytona Beach Races

Art,

I believe the aerial photograph of Mitchel Field and environs attributed as being in 1938 may be the wrong date. 

The Base Reconfiguration which resulted in the creation of the Parade Grounds (aka, Quadrangle) occurred between 1927 - 1932.  Close inspection of the photo reveals remnants of wooden buildings (or at least their foundations) left over from the WW1 era of Camp Mills still covering the Quad.  All would be removed shortly after completion of the brick buildings populating the Base. 

Further evidence is provided by the Main entrance on Stewart Avenue.  Notice how the roadway runs south and comes within a few yards of the westernmost home on Ellington Ave. EAST.  This road is NOT Selfridge Ave., and before creation of the Quad, extended as far south as the flight line. 

Soon afterwards, the Main entrance was realigned slightly to the west to its present day location.  When that occurred, the road running south from Stewart Ave. now named Selfridge, bordered the easternmost home on Ellington Ave. WEST, explaining why to this very day, there is a large patch of empty space adjacent to the westernmost home on Ellington Ave. EAST where an additional home could easily have been built but wasn’t because the original road once existed there.

Concurrent with the realignment of the Main entrance running south to line up with the top center of the Quad, the crossing of the Central Line of the LIRR was also shifted slightly to the west where it still stands today (though has been thoroughly rebuilt in recent years).

(See attached photo from 09/19/31 illustrating the original and realignment of the Main entrance).

My best guess as to the actual date of the photo may be around 1932-1933.

From Kleiner's Kolumn: Part I-Mapping the Motor Parkway, Mitchel Field & Mitchel Gardens