About
The six Vanderbilt Cup Races held on Long Island from 1904 to 1910 were the greatest sporting events of their day, and the first international automobile road races held in the United States. The races had a far-reaching impact on the development of American automobiles and parkways. This site provides comprehensive information on the races, the Long Island Motor Parkway and current Long Island automotive events, car shows and news.
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Co-Founder and Writer: Howard Kroplick
Co-Founder: Dana Kroplick
Website by Eric Miller Design
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Recent Comments
Identify this specific Tucker. Provide a rationale. Hint: This Tucker has several design features seen only on this automobile.
Prototype named the Tin Goose.
When was this photo taken? 1947
Where was this photo taken (currently unknown)?
What was the nickname for the women showing the Tucker at this exhibit? Hmm- how the Tuckerettes?
What was the brand name for the Tucker luggage? Indestructo
From Mystery Foto #6 Solved: The Tucker Tin Goose at a 1947 Exhibit
That is the Tucker prototype car #1000 also known as the “Tin Goose”. It was the only one made without suicide doors in the rear. Photo may have been taken on June 19, 1947 at its public debut at the Tucker factory on Cicero Avenue in Chicago, IL. I think the women were called Tuckerettes. The luggage was manufactured by INDESTRUCTO.
From Mystery Foto #6 Solved: The Tucker Tin Goose at a 1947 Exhibit
The door handles have to be the giveaway. It must be the Tin Goose Tucker 48 #1001 prototype. The location does not appear to be the White Castle in Lynbrook.
From Mystery Foto #6 Solved: The Tucker Tin Goose at a 1947 Exhibit
I don’t recall the car being outside; it was inside the garage when I first saw it (and thus all the more gigantic). Howard, what can you tell us about the metal vs. fabric chauffeur’s compartment tops, please? Also, I still insist that the three-quarter ports were originally open, although clear-glassed behind the louvres, so that Della could peek out, unseen (I SAW them); mirrors in there were a later modification. You might still be able to find door-hinge-pin-mounted rear-view mirrors; they were still available in left-right pairs some 20-30 years back. Sam, III
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Howard Kroplick
Sam III, Chrysler’s Chrysler came with a metal roof and a canvass roof over the driver’s compartment. The internal portholes were merely vanity mirrors.
Howard I
From Direct from Brazil: Three Photos of the 1937 Chrysler's Chrysler at the LeBaron Factory
Mystery friday Foto # 6… The Tucker in this photo is #1037. Not the Tin Goose. As per a page ion The Tucker Auto club site. Photo taken on June 19, 1947 at Tucker plant in Chicago. Name of women showing the Tucker at this exhibit… Tuckerettes. I just made that up. Don’t really know answer. The luggage brand was Tucker.
From Mystery Foto #6 Solved: The Tucker Tin Goose at a 1947 Exhibit
This Tucker is the Tin Goose, #0000 a prototype. This Tucker did not have suicide doors. The rear doors hinges are attached to the B Pillar.
From Mystery Foto #6 Solved: The Tucker Tin Goose at a 1947 Exhibit
The factory photo’s shows no wheel trim rings that was added later, along with a center front bumper guard, was removed in recent time, the original side view mirror that was mounted on top front door hinge, nice, that was replace with some aftermarket side view mirror on the door frame.
From Direct from Brazil: Three Photos of the 1937 Chrysler's Chrysler at the LeBaron Factory
The car is the original Tin Goose prototype, the rear doors opens forward, the hubcap of different designs than the later ones, the front bumper grill painted black. The other things unknown to me?
From Mystery Foto #6 Solved: The Tucker Tin Goose at a 1947 Exhibit
After Count Zobrowski died Chitty-Chitty-Bang-Bang went to Perry Thomas who put an aircraft engine in it. He called it BABS and was killed when a drive chain broke. It was buried on the beach where Thomas died. Only recently it was dug up and restored. It is now often at British vintage race car events and on several videos. This event caused Reid Railton to quit building his Arab automobile and rebuild Thomas’ engineering firm focused on high speed car and boat development.
From Update: Peter Helck's 1921 Benz-Mercedes "Rabbit-the-First" Now Owned by Jay Leno
What’s interesting is the same Gold Coast families that were together in the early 1900s are still together. Whitney, Vanderbilt, and Phipps all had major wealth and Long Island estates, the same families stuck together in Palm Beach. At one time the Phipps family owned approximately 30% of Palm Beach coastline. Not bad. Our current president likes it there too. He spends most weekends down there in what was formerly Post property, another Old Westbury resident.
From Vanderbilts and Whitneys Convene in West Palm Beach
If anyone hasn’t already, I suggest to check out the Peter Helck website. Especially enjoyed reading his memoirs. Peter and Jerry’s relationships with the racers are expressed in a manner as if you were there, too. Plan on thanking Timothy ( Jerry’s son ) for creating this website.
Jay Leno owns this beast now, very cool. I’ll have to check out his show.
Charles Lytle must be related to Herb Lytle, and as well as the Lytle that you used to work along with Howard?
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Howard Kroplick
Brian, Charles Lytle was Peter Helck’s friend and an automotive historian. I am not sure if he is related to Herb or Tom Lytle.
From Update: Peter Helck's 1921 Benz-Mercedes "Rabbit-the-First" Now Owned by Jay Leno
Howard and Rob, the Pebble Beach Concours d’ Elegance is set for Aug. 26 dawn (for you) some 201 days left. Able to make it?? Howard your Chrysler took some 18 months and just about made it. Simpler restoration for the Tucker?
From Tucker 1044 Conservation Report II: Highlights from the Memorable Open House
Don’t know the car but this monstrous machine reminded me of Alfred Gwynne Vanderbilt’s 1906 250 hp Fiat.
I believe it’s the Helck father-son team at the helm of what could be a V-12 powerplant on wheels. Possible Mercedes emblem on the radiator. Geez, this thing looks HEAVY and must weigh in at least 6000 lbs. Hope there’s car specs with this week’s answers. Can’t wait!
From Update: Peter Helck's 1921 Benz-Mercedes "Rabbit-the-First" Now Owned by Jay Leno
I was wondering if the Stutz company had an entry in the Vanderbilt cup races
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Howard Kroplick
Roger, there were no Stutz entered in the Long Island Races (1904-1910). But , there were Stutz in the later races (1912-1916):
http://www.vanderbiltcupraces.com/blog/article/starting_lineup_the_1912_vanderbilt_cup_race_held_in_milwaukee
http://www.champcarstats.com/races/191401.htm
http://www.vanderbiltcupraces.com/blog/article/starting_lineup_the_1915_vanderbilt_cup_race_in_san_francisco
http://www.champcarstats.com/races/191613.htm
From Driver Profile: Camille Jenatzy- "The Red Devil" and His Tragic Death
It is the 1912 Mercedes Benz Ralph DePalma drove at Indy. 8W model. something like the Olfield 1909 Blitxen Benz. It is also like the chassis Perry Thomas used to build Babs. DePalma and Hetck in it likely in the 1960s. Might be at Bridge Hampton. Part of the Penske collection.
From Update: Peter Helck's 1921 Benz-Mercedes "Rabbit-the-First" Now Owned by Jay Leno
1. Mercedes chassis, Chitty-Bang-Bang, 23 liter Maybach Aircraft engine.
2. Built in 1921by Count Louis Zborowski.
3. Fiat known as “Mephistopheles”.
4. Driver unknown, passenger is Peter Helck.
5. Photo taken after 1924, owned by the sons of Arthur Conan Doyal.
6. Last known owner in 1934 was John Morris who dismantled the car.
From Update: Peter Helck's 1921 Benz-Mercedes "Rabbit-the-First" Now Owned by Jay Leno
The red Fiat S61shown on the envelope is the one that Wagner crashed in 1910 at the U.S. Grand Prix in Savannah. This fiat team of 3 cars was not allowed to race in the Vanderbilt Cup event because the displacement limit was 600 c.i. The Fiats were 616 c.i. They were later sleeved down to 589 c.i. for racing at Indianapolis. This particular car now resides in the Indianapolis Speedway Museum. One other team car is known to exist in the U.S.
Regards,
Randy Reed
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Howard Kroplick
Good job Randy!
From Helck Family Collection: Peter Helck's Illustrated Wagner Envelopes
Identify this racer including: manufacturer, nickname and engine size
-1922 Mercedes Racing Special. A World War I Benz aircraft engine of 19 liters displacement installed in an early Mercedes chain-drive chassis. The car was known as ‘Rabbit the First,’
In what year was this racer built and who was its first owner?
-constructed in 1922 in England for Lord Scarisbrick.
Which automobile was this racer often mistaken for?
-Pure guess and say the earlier Blitzen Benz.
Identify the driver and passenger in the Mystery Foto.
-Peter Helck in the passenger seat, and I’ll guess that could be his son Jerry driving.
When was this photo taken and who were the owners at that time.
Another guess and say Helck’s upstate home sometime in the 60’s. Peter Helck owned the car.
Who owns the racer today
-I’m only seeing David North/North collection being the possible current owner
From Update: Peter Helck's 1921 Benz-Mercedes "Rabbit-the-First" Now Owned by Jay Leno
No clue (again) but the passenger ‘pears to be Peter Helck and dollars to doughnuts it has a Liberty L-12 engine (which, in spite of the misleading model number, is a V12). Sam, III
From Update: Peter Helck's 1921 Benz-Mercedes "Rabbit-the-First" Now Owned by Jay Leno
The III couldn’t be more appropriate for the exhibit but, old tho’ I be, I have serious trouble considering it as an “Antique” car! Yes , I can still add but still - - - . Sam, III
From AACA Museum Announces the 1963 Mustang III Concept Show will be Featured in Upcoming 2018 Exhibit
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