Vanderbilt Cup Races

Reading everyone’s comments before Howard puts up his comments, made me want to post up another possibility for the original placement of the sign.  Maybe it was used near Roosevelt raceway during the 1936/37 Vanderbilt Cup Races…

From Mystery Foto #97 Solved: Rare Wooden Long Island Motor Parkway Sign (1933-1938)

Thankyou, Mr. Velocci. That’s good news. I would come across this area during work, (Lilco, National Grid). I don’t have the ability to get around as in the past with my parkinsonism. Libraries are one of my favorite places, and one you spoke of is in LIMP territory.

From A 1923 Property Map of Nassau County Highlighting the Motor Parkway

The Renault race car that “Ledgie” Pfund owned was found and purchased by Austin Clark. It sat in a back shed at his museum for many years, and Austin came to an agreement with Ledgie that they would both have half interest in ownership of Ledgie had the car restored, which he did. I never heard that the car ran properly under his ownership, and in fact Austin sold out his interest in the car after a few years once it had been restored .

From The Vintage Automobiles of the 80th Anniversary of the 1908 Vanderbilt Cup Race

By the way, there is another sign hanging just below it in the same fashion.

From Mystery Foto #97 Solved: Rare Wooden Long Island Motor Parkway Sign (1933-1938)

A toughy. This one may remain a mystery unless someone can recall seeing the sign back in the day. I shall make an attempt. 
1934-1938
The sign indicating Northern Pkwy places it in Nassau or Suffolk county, not Queens.
Because of its flimsy wire mount and emt electrical conduit behind, it is mounted on a small structure, possibly a house or booth, not a highway or bridge.
I believe it was used at a location where large volume of traffic was expected.
The busiest place I can think of where the LIMP ran through is the Roosevelt Raceway/Polo Fields/Roosevelt Field area respectively.
This sign may have been mounted on an entrance/exit booth to the Polo Fields or Roosevelt Raceway, to lure motorists onto the pricey LIMP to help avoid and alleviate traffic congestion on Old Country Rd and Stewart Ave. I suspect the intent was to cross the twin bridges (Polo Fields), work around to the Meadowbrook Lodge entrance on Merrick Ave, pay your toll!! (Perhaps at a discounted rate or free!!), travel westbound to the Mineola Lodge at Jericho Tpke and exit, then take a short hop eastward to the NSP ‘westbound only’ entrance via the Objector’s Bend section. The Meadowbrook Pkwy wasn’t around yet so accessing NSP west from the fun area for city dwellers was difficult pre WWII. Howard, I’m sending an attachment of this guess route and really looking forward to this week’s answers. This ought to be good. Thanks again. 

From Mystery Foto #97 Solved: Rare Wooden Long Island Motor Parkway Sign (1933-1938)

Oh, dear!  I was VERY disappointed in what I turned up (so far) but I posted it anyway:

  http://sbiii.com/limpnaer.html

At the very least, you’ll get the idea.

Sam, III

From A 1923 Property Map of Nassau County Highlighting the Motor Parkway

First, the dimensions of the sign appear to be wrong - if it is 3 ft. long, then it isn’t 2 ft wide.  Also is it 2-sided?  It dates from c.1933-1938 - from when the NSP 1st opened to when the LIMP closed.  As the sign shows no visible weathering it probably was protected under a bridge, etc., therefore single-sided, or dates from c. 1938.  The 1935 SOCONY Long Island Road Map shows the NSP ending at Jericho Tpke & Glen Cove Rd (Guinea Woods Rd), about where it now meets the Meadowbrook Pkwy, which didn’t exist north of the Sunrise Hwy then.  Logically then the sign would have to have been west of this spot in 1935, if it is from the earliest possible date.  By 1938 the NSP finally reached the Wantagh Pwy, so if the sign is c.1938 then it could have been west of Wantagh Pkwy instead.  Best I can do!
______________________________

From Howard Kroplick

Maybe 3 feet x 1 1/2 feet. Not sure if it is two-sided.

From Mystery Foto #97 Solved: Rare Wooden Long Island Motor Parkway Sign (1933-1938)

Mike LaBarbera reminds me of one of our original Motor Parkway Panel goals, to coordinate all these maps over a current USGS Topo Map (or, at least, over the latest Hagstroms)  as overlays.  We never got that far, although the Nassau County Parks proposal maps:

  http://sbiii.com/limpnass/limpncpk.html

and the Nassau County aerial series of 1926, 1950, and 2000 were sure a good start.  If I ever posted the latter, I can’t find it, so I think I’ll do so next - stay tuned here!  Sam, III

From A 1923 Property Map of Nassau County Highlighting the Motor Parkway

This answer is pure guess except for the dates.

Date could be 1933 corresponding to the time when the Northern State reached Roslyn Road.  Between this time and until 1934, there was no Northern State east of this as the wealthy land owners objected to its proposed route.  Objectors’ Bend was built south at that point bypassing the estates and crossed Westbury and Carle Place before once again heading east.

Sign might have been at Glen Cove Road, directing motorists on the Motor Parkway to continue on the Parkway to get to the Northern State at a point later west to continue to New York.

Might the most logical exit be Roslyn Road?

From Mystery Foto #97 Solved: Rare Wooden Long Island Motor Parkway Sign (1933-1938)

From Janet Guthrie:

Hi Howard—

I remember many enjoyable conversations with Ledyard Pfund at the Madison Avenue Sport Car Driving and Chowder Society’s meetings (still run by by my long-time friend Bruce Wennerstrom) at Sardi’s in the 1970s, but I never knew he owned a car or cars like the one shown.  Many thanks!

Best,
Janet Guthrie

From The Vintage Automobiles of the 80th Anniversary of the 1908 Vanderbilt Cup Race

In response to Brian McCarthy’s question regarding St. George Lake. Happy to report the lake is well and always has water. The Town of North Hempstead recently cleared the surrounding areas of overgrowth, enclosed the lake with a lovely wrought iron fence and provided benches. The low lying areas north of the lake on both sides of Searingtown Road drain into the lake. If you wish to see what the area looked like before Searingtown Road was built, (Previously Manhasset Ave.), stop in at the Shelter Rock Library and ask to see the photos I donated to the Library a couple of years ago. Al Velocci

From A 1923 Property Map of Nassau County Highlighting the Motor Parkway

Mike LaBarbera reminds me of one of our original Motor Parkway Panel goals, to coordinate all these maps over a current USGS Topo Map (or, at least, over the latest Hagstroms)  as overlays.  We never got that far, although the Nassau County Parks proposal maps:

  http://sbiii.com/limpnass/limpncpk.html

and the Nassau County aerial series of 1926, 1950, and 2000 were sure a good start.  If I ever posted the latter, I can’t find it, so I think I’ll do so next - stay tuned here!  Sam, III

From A 1923 Property Map of Nassau County Highlighting the Motor Parkway

Hello everyone. When viewing this sign, you’d think that there is a direct exit from the LIMP onto NSPkwy. And perhaps there was during the construction periods of the NSPkwy (1931 to 1938, where temporary on or off exits may have existed with an active LIMP). Since this sign location is unknown, I’d like to suggest 2 possible scenarios. Motoring east or west on the LIMP, I could exit off at Lakeville Rd; and then head a little south to NSPkwy. Or, motoring north or south on the LIMP, I could exit off at Jericho Tpke. And then head a little east to the NSPkwy. Now, I’m going to help my son with his homework.

From Mystery Foto #97 Solved: Rare Wooden Long Island Motor Parkway Sign (1933-1938)

Yes, it was a wonderful event. I drove up from Philadelphia with my son and friend Binney Beale. David Helck took my son Jeff for an unforgettable ride in Old 16 and we were passengers in John LeBaire’s magnificent PIerce 66 for the tour.

The only sad note was standing next to Jerry Helck when the state trooper told him that Priscilla had just died.

From The Vintage Automobiles of the 80th Anniversary of the 1908 Vanderbilt Cup Race

- What were the possible dates when this 3 feet x 2 feet sign was active? Hint: The sign’s provenance stated the sign was from the 1930s.

Looking for a time when both roadways coexisted. The first section of the Northern State opened in 1933 and the Motor Parkway closed in April 1938 making that the possible time span.

- Although the location of the sign is unknown, provide your best guess and rationale of where the sign was likely placed?

Complete guess here, but maybe in Ronkonkoma to direct the traveler who was about to set off for a trip back to NYC.

-Assuming a driver on the Motor Parkway followed this sign, what was the logical exit to reach Northern State Parkway?

Another guess would be the Great Neck lodge on Lakeville road where they intesect.

From Mystery Foto #97 Solved: Rare Wooden Long Island Motor Parkway Sign (1933-1938)

Addendum to my previous reply: the sign could have been at the intersection of Main St and Railroad Avenue in Sayville (Railroad becomes Lakeland as it heads northwest toward Lake Ronkonkoma and the LIMP).

From Mystery Foto #97 Solved: Rare Wooden Long Island Motor Parkway Sign (1933-1938)

1. The NSP opened in 1933. The LIMP closed in 1938. That’s the window.

2. The sign could have been anywhere from Lake Ronkonkoma west to the Nassau/Suffolk line. One possible thought is Jericho Turnpike at Harned Road. Another is Sunrise Highway at Lakeland Avenue.
3. In ascending chronological order as the NSP was extended, Lakeville Road, Roslyn Road and then Jericho Turnpike (Mineola).

From Mystery Foto #97 Solved: Rare Wooden Long Island Motor Parkway Sign (1933-1938)

The first section of the Northern State Pkwy. opened in 1933 (from Grand Central Pkwy. to Willis Ave.) and the LIMP closed in 1938 so the sign could have been active only during that 5 year span. Trying to guess the possible location(s) of the sign requires a few assumptions be made: since it is advising drivers how to get TO New York, and it is telling drivers to make a left turn, it was probably intended for viewing by either northbound drivers on a north/south road or by westbound drivers on an east/west road. Since it implies access to both the NSP and LIMP by going in the same direction, I think we can also assume that entrances to both parkways would have been relatively near each other at that time. Following this logic, I think the sign was probably placed on the westbound side of Old Power House Road slightly east of the intersection with Roslyn Road. The NSP was only a few hundred feet south of this point and the LIMP Roslyn Toll Lodge was about a mile south. An argument could be made for similar placement at the intersection of Lakeville Road and Old Westbury Road but I don’t think so because it probably would have mentioned Grand Central Pkwy. While I don’t think the sign was used for LIMP drivers, it could logically have been placed at either the Great Neck, Roslyn, or Meadowbrook Lodges.

From Mystery Foto #97 Solved: Rare Wooden Long Island Motor Parkway Sign (1933-1938)

Or it could be the terminus at Fresh Meadows Queens, for cars to continue on to New York City. But looking at the shiny pipe conduit behind it, this sign is hanging in a museum somewhere.

From Mystery Foto #97 Solved: Rare Wooden Long Island Motor Parkway Sign (1933-1938)

My guess is at Lakeville Road (Where Marcus Avenue is) or the bridge east of that which also crosses the NSP.

From Mystery Foto #97 Solved: Rare Wooden Long Island Motor Parkway Sign (1933-1938)