Vanderbilt Cup Races

Didn’t have the time this weekend,am in the process of maybe makiing another move to The Villages in Florida,just driving down to check out renting and looking around to get an idea to what there’s to offer. Right now it very tempting,but it’s only the first day,need to see more to make that big decision

From Mystery Fotos #10 Solved: Road Testing the Motor Parkway During the Summer of 1908

I think the biggest kudos also need to go to Frank and Art for reading comprehension on this one!
It appears I misread the question looking for the location of the PHOTOGRAPHER and NOT the Packards sitting on the turn in the top cover photo! Funny too because in my mind I did notice that’s the location where the other photos were taken from!

Again, fun photo this week! And to have all the supporting photos for the reveal, very nice! For some reason I especially like the perspective of that 1936 aerial.

From Mystery Fotos #10 Solved: Road Testing the Motor Parkway During the Summer of 1908

Identify the location where these photos were taken. Provide a rationale and be specific (ie. between which current roads). Update: See below 1926 Motor Parkway aerials.
Hempstead Plains/Levittown - south of Bloomingdale Road between Wantagh & Jerusalem Avenues.

On what type of structure was the top photo taken? Hint: It was not a bridge.
Water tower

Identify the three automobiles in the photos.
Packards
 
What pioneering characteristics of the Motor Parkway are shown in the photos?
The width of the roadway for passing capabilities, banking of the road surface in curved sections

What is the approximate date of photos? Provide a rationale.  1908 - prior to the opening of the Motor Parkway.  no rails, no bridge?

From Mystery Fotos #10 Solved: Road Testing the Motor Parkway During the Summer of 1908

I guess just simply saying the location Levittown in the Hempstead Plains was a ‘phone-it-in’ answer!  This was a fun one that is quite deceptive.

I think this is the second turn heading East after the grandstand.  I believe the Packards are heading in the West on the LIMP. I could be wrong, because the Bloomingdale Rd bridge should be there unless it was built after these photos.

From Mystery Fotos #10 Solved: Road Testing the Motor Parkway During the Summer of 1908

Howard you do a great job with your web site. Your love of history and tremendous amount of work that you put into what you do is greatly appreciated. I look forward to every new motor parkway post. Hopefully the membership continues to grow. Long Island has tremendous history, the motor parkway being one fantastic example.

From East Meadow Herald Cover Story: Racing through the Island's past

Another great mystery photo. Check out all this open space. I believe all of the photos are in the same general area and facing in the same direction, thanks to the shadows. This is about Jul/Aug 1908 during the rush to complete this section of Motor Parkway, just before the Oct 10, 1908 Sweepstakes and two weeks later, Oct 24 Vanderbilt Cup Race. I believe there are two possible locations: Dead Man’s Curve 1 eastward approach in Bethpage (Central Park) before it turns left towards the north, or the Levittown curve southeastward approach between the Jerusalem Avenue highway bridge and the Bloomingdale Road highway bridge that is not yet built. My best guess is the latter. Besides the flat terrain and culverts under the roadway to address Hempstead Plains flooding, the banked curve in the photo with the 3 vehicles is not as pronounced as the curve at Dead Man’s. Also, there is a storm basin today in this immediate area. The barely visible railroad tracks in the background come in on a diagonal and are not parallel with this roadway stretch, as it is at Dead Man’s Curve. The winding roadway on the left could be Farmedge Rd in Levittown (still there today). The bird’s eye view photo was taken from atop the water tower, where same photographer was captured on the water tower in a separate photo. Some of the latest pioneering techniques used on the roadway are (some not apparent in the photos): under roadway flood control, traffic intersection elimination, pedestrian/equestrian/bicyclist elimination, and high speed banked curves with guardrail protection.  I’m leaving the autos to the experts. Great stuff as always, looking forward to this week’s answers. Howard, I’m sending attachments.
Driver Joe Tracy also tested the new roadway before the races.
http://www.vanderbiltcupraces.com/images/blog/B0196600.jpg

From Mystery Fotos #10 Solved: Road Testing the Motor Parkway During the Summer of 1908

These are three Packards 30 H.P., one runabout and two touring cars driving on the LIMP somewhere on Hempstead Plains. The structure is a culvert, probably the one east of (the future location of) the grandstand. Another photo exists, where one of these Packards (the one with the passenger in the white coat) is passing the Newbridge Road Bridge under construction. As this bridge was finished at August 20th, 1908, these photos must have been made shortly before this date. Unfortunately I didn’t have time to find out the identity of the passengers and what they were doing.

From Mystery Fotos #10 Solved: Road Testing the Motor Parkway During the Summer of 1908

How quickly Garden City seems to be willing to sacrifice their part of this historic roadway in order to play a part in the ongoing malling of america.

From William A. Bellmer Article: "The Long Island Motor Parkway in Garden City"

Great story .l like reading about Long Island ,and racing history .you do a nice job

From East Meadow Herald Cover Story: Racing through the Island's past

From Hemmings Blog

Alex March 3, 2016 9:14 am

I hate to ask what the dealer wants for the piece. But here goes: what is the price?

Bruce T.

Bruce T. says:

March 3, 2016 10:03 am

Awfully big for a weathervane. You would need a crane to get it on top of a building and a real secure mounting system.

PALMWARD says:

March 3, 2016 10:27 am

Having been an antiques dealer for 50 years AND a lifelong car nut let me offer these comments:
1) It is NOT a weather vane – they are virtually always flat or near flat for the simple purpose of catching the wind.
2) Mounting sculpture on a post (even a rotating one) is not only not uncommon it is the standard practice for 3 dimensional folk art.
3) I would offer that the “step” mentioned might well actually be the shelf for the spare gas can Old No 16 carried.
4) A question – does it actually bear a number on the grill? Old No 16 held a huge place in the American Folk Consciousness in the pre-WWI so it’s not unexpected to see a tribute on this level – although it could have been an actual commission.
5) Although it was found in Palm Beach – the extreme quality of the work would seem to indicate it was done by a master craftsman who had a whole free winter available to him – i.e. Maine or Minnesota, etc. (Just my thought)

Brian Austin
March 4, 2016 1:22 am

FWIW, there have been numerous period-constructed full-3D sculpted weathervanes, such as of steam locomotives. There are also numerous present-day weathervane sculptures presented online making it difficult to find pictures and info on the old ones. :-(

PALMWARD
March 3, 2016 10:29 am

Oh – and how much IS it?

51 Ford Guy
March 3, 2016 2:30 pm

If we have to ask, we can’t afford it.

hal
March 3, 2016 11:06 am

A great creation by a very talented man.
Thanks for the data

Jimmie
March 3, 2016 11:06 am

There are many techniques to artificially patinate a “new antique” so that’s not much proof of anything. How long could it have sat outside (in Florida?) with those wheels and tires, anyway?

dukeisduke
March 3, 2016 11:17 am

The thing that caught my eye was the sprocket in front of the driver’s rear wheel. It looks like a crankwheel from a bicycle. That alone made me think this was more modern than from the Vanderbilt Cup era.

Also, Peter Helck is a name I hadn’t heard in a while. I remember his work in Road & Track.

John C. Kovalo
March 3, 2016 11:39 am

MY [mental] question is how many hours would I have to spend to make one like it in my shop? I’m already eyeing my huge pile of galvanized sheet metal, copper being WAY too expensive.

Naaah, I dint’t have that much time on my hands, but wouldn’t this be the ultimate KOOL sculpture to have sitting around the garage, patio, etc.? I don’t care WHAT its provenance is; some things just make a statement by themselves.

And thanks for the refresher on the Vanderbilt and Gordon Bennett cups; i’d give my left testicle to go back in time for just one day and watch ’em run; what a time period for automobiles!

Doug
March 3, 2016 11:39 am

What’s with the rear wheel “spokes” being different (fatter?) than the fronts?

Brian Austin
March 4, 2016 12:44 am

seems to me many cars and trucks of the era did that.

Forte Venta
March 3, 2016 1:21 pm

Very interesting !

Forte Venta
March 3, 2016 1:30 pm

My guess is that it could have been commissioned by one of the actual prior owners of old # 16. I would think , that the detail we see in this interesting piece, surely had to be patterned after the genuine article. An artist,whom would have had access to the real thing, in order to create such a work…Perhaps you could trace old # 16’s lineage back to the era that the noted artist thought it was created..who owned it during that time? Perhaps they could answer the riddle for
you !

Still, very interesting..Vanderbilt Cup races history..Thanks to your publications for bringing out the historical details like these…It is why I subscribe to your publications …Happy Motoring !

PHANTOM HAWK
March 3, 2016 2:39 pm

The Henry Ford should acquire it and display it with the prototype!

Scotty G
March 3, 2016 9:39 pm

Old or newly-made-to-look-old, I love it either way! What a great (indoor) display piece this would be, but I’m guessing that the price would be more than most of the wacky little cars on my wish list would be; maybe combined.

I love the line about, “It’s not really old”… “this looks like the one I made in the 1950s.” It’s almost as if the 1950s era wasn’t quite a while ago now..

John Cole
March 4, 2016 9:23 am

I would love to acquire this piece – can anyone shed some information on how to get a hold of the dealer who currently has it?

Frank Schaeffer
March 4, 2016 12:15 pm

judging by the rust stain below the Mechanicians seat and the extreme weathering I think it was garden art. the 2 bucket seats for holding flower pots- this may also explain the broken spoke on bottom of steering wheel and the steering wheel a bit lower than original to clear the pot. it must have come from quite an estate!

Federico Martinez
March 4, 2016 1:09 pm

“I don’t recall OLD 16 having a step originally…” Said Mr. Jerry Helck, but according to this photograph taken in 1908, it indeed had a step, alas, not exactly equal to the one in this replica…
See: http://digitalcollections.detroitpubliclibrary.org/islandora/object/islandora:182743

Anyway: one incredible piece of art!
And thanks to Mr Conwill, for showing it to all of us.

From Hemmings Blog: Does this weathervane look familiar?

My 1st guess would be Sept 1908, about a month before the first race, traveling east on the straightaway in Levittown toward the grandstand. The structure is a drain culvert for passing water under the roadway (maybe the same culvert as the one in the 2 photos that the 2 boys were playing near in the 1950s photo from a previous mystery photo. Looks like the road to the left could be Division Avenue which did not quite make it up to the roadway at the time. I Can’t name the cars, sorry about that.  My 2nd guess was going to be Deadman’s Curve #2 at section 23 traveling east into Bethpage Park, but there are no water towers on the bend so i’m going to stick with my 1st guess. Good one, very little reference points to work from.

From Mystery Fotos #10 Solved: Road Testing the Motor Parkway During the Summer of 1908

Identify the location where these photos were taken. Provide a rationale.
Hempstead Plains, what is now Levittown

On what type of structure was the top photo taken? Hint: It was not a bridge.
Banked turn, possibly a culvert.

Identify the three automobiles in the photos.
All 3 are Packards

What pioneering characteristics of the Motor Parkway are shown in the photos?
Width of the roadway and the ability to pass other vehicles and also displays banked road surface on turns.

What is the approximate date of photos? Provide a rationale.
The inspection team tested the roadway just before opening in October 1908

From Mystery Fotos #10 Solved: Road Testing the Motor Parkway During the Summer of 1908

From Greg O.:
Did another fun, quick Google Earth screen capture. Always love the aerials!

• Where was the location of this aerial and its orientation?
• Just about opposite of the mystery photo from last week! Over Westbury looking South-West. Future Salisbury neighborhood of Westbury in the center near the top of the photo.

• Which Long Island parkway(s) were under construction?
• Northern and Wantagh State Parkways

• Identify the Long Island Motor Parkway bridges and landmarks in the aerial?
• Roosevelt Field Bridge, Meadowbrook lodge, Newbridge, Stewart and Carmen Ave bridges beyond that.

• What other Long island landmarks can be seen in the aerial?
•  Roosevelt Raceway built for the 1936 & 1937 Vanderbilt Cup Races. The oval Roosevelt Raceway track for midget races can be seen in front of the grandstands. Looking closely I can make out the edge of the alee of trees from Phipps’ Westbury House ending at Jericho Tpke.

• What is the estimated date of the aerial? Provide a rationale.
• Spring/Summer 1939 since the parkways look just completed and there is plenty of foliage.

From Mystery Foto #9 Solved: Northern State Parkway and Wantagh State Parkway Under Construction

Howard:  Great job, you know if you won at Westbury Gardens you would win in Florida.  congratulations

From Chrysler's Chrysler Honored with Three Awards at the Boca Raton Concours d'Elegance Updated: 2/29/16

Really enjoyed reading about the weekend in Boca!

From Chrysler's Chrysler Honored with Three Awards at the Boca Raton Concours d'Elegance Updated: 2/29/16

Love the crispy Fairchild aerials, they’re definitely ahead of their time. However Roosevelt Raceway gave this one away. Hard to hide that humongous structure. Facing SE at Carle Place/Westbury/E Garden City, around 1938 during construction of this section of Northern State Parkway (the white diagonal roadway in the foreground). The Wantagh State Pkwy may also be under construction as well (1927-1938, the white diagonal roadway in the background), also the first highway route to Jones Beach’s opening in 1929! The completed interchange of Meadowbrook State Pkwy will not appear here until 1956. The Long Island Motor Parkway in this photo is closed, or about to close (Apr 1938), due to Robert Moses’ fierce competition with a toll free highway system pictured here under construction

From Mystery Foto #9 Solved: Northern State Parkway and Wantagh State Parkway Under Construction

Nice mystery photo, Howard!

Where was the location of this aerial and its orientation
Looking southeast in Nassau County (Garden City, Westbury, Carle Place, East Meadow, Hempstead Plains)

Which Long Island parkway(s) were under construction?
Northern and Wantagh State Parkways

Identify the Long Island Motor Parkway bridges and landmarks in the aerial?
Meadow Brook Lodge, Merrick Ave. Parkway Bridge, Stewart Ave., Carmen Ave., Newbridge Ave., and possibly Old Country Road Bridges. And somewhere off to the east in the picture would be the Newbride Road bridge.

What other Long island landmarks can be seen in the aerial?
Salisbury Links, Roosevelt Field (including Midget race car track), Meadowbrook Polo Fields and Club House, Ladenberg estate, Meadowbrook Racetrack (now the location of the East Meadow School District Admin. Office), Central RR., James Cinch Smith estate.   

What is the estimated date of the aerial? Provide a rationale. Note: Previous posting of this aerial has been removed until Monday night.
Contrary to other postings, I believe the date is 1937-1938, not 1939.  According to newspaper clippings (Kleiner’s Korner) construction of this section of the Northern State Parkway was done in 1937 and 1938 with the official opening on Dec. 10, 1938.  However, as I’ve noted before, you can’t believe everything you read!  The Midget Car Races at Roosevelt Field was in August of 1939, and as the mystery picture shows the track, could the track not have been built soon before the race actually took place (say the spring of 1939) or maybe prior to 1939?  Either way, close enough? 

From Mystery Foto #9 Solved: Northern State Parkway and Wantagh State Parkway Under Construction

Easily a cornerstone of my whole life on Long Island. I was always heading to “that park in Roslyn” for a spell of rest and relaxation.

From George Robertson: The Vanderbilt Cup Race Driver Who Helped Beautify Roslyn

Congrats again (getting to be “as usual”)!  Harley Earl was 25-26 and working for his father when Don Lee bought the business in 1919; wonder if the Pierce was done under J. W. Earl or Don Lee.  Sam, III

From Chrysler's Chrysler Honored with Three Awards at the Boca Raton Concours d'Elegance Updated: 2/29/16

Good mix of easy and hard!  Location and orientation - over Hicksville looking WNW.  Parkway(s) were under construction - No. State (upper right to upper left to lower right), Meadowbrook (far left), and Wantagh N. extension.  LIMP bridges and landmarks - Roslyn Road and lodge, LIRR Main Line, Glen Cove Road and lodge and super’s house, Ellison Ave., Whaleneck Rd, Post Ave. at right - pass - too many!  Other LI landmarks - endless - the Jericho Pike, ‘38 VCR course, Mitchel and Roos. Fields, Old Country Rd., LIRR Main Line, Hempstead Tpke. lower left, Meadowbrook Club and RR station, what was much later my house in Mineola, - - - AAAUUUGGGHHH!  Estimated date - 1938 - when Wantagh was extended to No. State.  WHEW!  Sam, III

From Mystery Foto #9 Solved: Northern State Parkway and Wantagh State Parkway Under Construction