Vanderbilt Cup Races

Alan Sadwin

Howard,

I assume there is no hallmark but this may help.

Will try to look more later

http://www.silvercollection.it/USASILWATSON.html

Watson Company: history, marks and flatware patterns
The origin of the firm traces back to 1874 when was formed in Attleboro, MA, the Cobb, Gould & Co. The founders were Clarence L. Watson, Fred Newell, Charles Cobb, Samuel Gould and W.A. Battey.
The firm produced a line of jewelry goods, mainly gold plated.
Between 1875 and 1880 Battey, Cobb and Gould withdrew from the partnership and Watson and Newell, the only ones left, formed a new firm operating under the name Watson & Newell (1880-1886).
In 1887 Joseph R. Ripley joined to the business and the firm changed its name to Watson, Newell & Co. In 1891 also Edward L. Gowern entered the partnership. The business continued with success and, needing larger quarters, in 1894 the old Mechanics Mill property was bought opening the new factory in 1896.
The name changed to Watson & Newell Co, while Mechanics Sterling Company was the name of the subsidiary flatware branch. In 1899 the firm obtained its first flatware patent (Clarence L. Watson) and began a wide production of flatware and souvenir spoons.
Failing health forced Fred Newell to retire from the active participation to the firm shortly after the turn of the century. He remained as a non-active partner until his death (1910).
In 1904 the sleeve and collar buttons division became a separate operating unit with the name of Standard Button Company under the direction of Ripley and Gowen.
In this period the firm produced hundreds of sterling souvenir spoons depicting a variety of subjects.
Beginning about 1900, Watson produced a line of sterling hollow-ware for Wilcox & Wagoner of New York using the “sword and laurel wreath” mark. Wilcox & Wagoner closed down c.1905 and Watson continued producing with this mark until 1929.
In 1920 “The Watson Co” was incorporated taking in charge all the silver operations. Many new flatware patterns continued to be introduced on a regular basis.
At the death of Clarence L. Watson (1930) the management of the firm was assumed by his son-in-law Grover Richards.
In 1955 the business was sold to R. Wallace & Sons.
The dies of Watson souvenir spoons (as many as 3000), sold by Wallace, in the 1970s were in unused possession of The Inman Co Inc. of Attleboro, MA.

CHRONOLOGY
Cobb, Gould & Co 1874 - 1880
Watson & Newell 1880 - 1886
Watson, Newell & Co 1887 - 1895
Watson & Newell Co 1895 - 1920
Watson Company 1920 - 1955
acquired by R. Wallace & Sons 1955

From Vanderbilia: The Old 16 Locomobile Spoon

Does anyone know the address of the 8 story showroom and shops of the Peerless Company that is mentioned? There were several Automobile Rowss in New York City, both early and late in the first half of the 20th century. I am planning a walking tour to view former automobile connected buildings that still exist that still mostly resemble what they looked like when connected to the automo0bile this October. Richard Lentinello of Hemmings Classic Car and I will lead the tour.

From Vanderbilia: The Old 16 Locomobile Spoon

The picture was taken over Roosevelt Airfield looking west.
LIRR Ronkonkama and Oyster Bay lines. Old Country Road, Mineola Blvd, Willis Ave, Roslyn Road, ect.
LIMP bridges - over LIRR, under Old Country Rd and over farmway in Garden City.
Mineola Fairgrounds with harness racing ovals, now Nassau County Court complex.
Airplane hangers for Roosevelt Field.
Picture was taken at the end of 1920’s early ‘30’s judging by the start of sub divisions.

From Update #3: Mystery Foto #28 Solved: A 1931 Aerial of the Motor Parkway in Garden City and Mineola

No time for research but can’t resist - wild guess/first stab:  over Roosevelt Field, looking northwest,  LIMP diagonally across lower center right.  LIRR Main LIne upper left to lower right, with Old Country Road immediately to its south (lower left).  Clinton Road at lower right, with RF hangars.  Ovals are old Mineola Fairgrounds; now Nassau County courts complex.  OCR and LIRR bridges.  Very early aerial - Garden City not yet built up.  GC Hotel?  Gotta run.  Sam, III

From Update #3: Mystery Foto #28 Solved: A 1931 Aerial of the Motor Parkway in Garden City and Mineola

Aerial photo over Garden City,at edge of Roosevelt field, facing west.
Roads- Motor Parkway running north from Clinton Ave up past OLd Country road, between (between what would later become Russel Rd and Pell Terrace)
Clinton Avenue bottom right, intersecting with Old Country Road in right corner of picture
Bridges- Bridge over LIRR and Old Country Highway bridge
The Ovals were part of the Mineola Fairgrounds- now the Nassau County Court complex on Washington ST in Garden City
Buildings in bottom right were the hangars of Roosevelt Field
Date: I would guess 1930s given the hangars and lack of development in east GArden City

From Update #3: Mystery Foto #28 Solved: A 1931 Aerial of the Motor Parkway in Garden City and Mineola

Ross Lumpkin:

More Than a Cleanup!

Referring to the gathering at Monfort Cemetery as “cleaning up Port’s oldest cemetery” in last week’s edition is only partially true.  It was much more than that. 

Town Historian Howard Kroplick organized a workshop to teach cleaning techniques for gravestones and to demonstrate more difficult restoration processes that with additional training or under the supervision of a professional would enable any of us to go to the next level.  So not only did we begin cleaning up Monfort Cemetery, but the 30 or so people in attendance can apply what was learned in communities all over Long Island.

For all of us, it was eye-opening to see clear text emerge from the gravestones as we cleaned.  I had come expecting to learn a thing or two, but never in my wildest dreams did I expect that cleaning a gravestone would be fun.

A special thanks is due to Howard Kroplick and Town Supervisor Judi Bosworth for making this day possible.
Ross Lumpkin, Trustee
Cow Neck Peninsula Historical Society

From Update #1: Seven Long Island Motor Parkway Preservation Members Help to Preserve a Town Landmark

For the bonus question I’m revising my answer to Krug’s Hotel on the corner of Willis and Jericho Turnpikes.

From Update #3: Mystery Foto #28 Solved: A 1931 Aerial of the Motor Parkway in Garden City and Mineola

*Location/Orientation:  Bird’s Eye View of Garden City & Mineola

*Major Rd’s/Railroads:  LIMP of course. Clinton, Transverse, & Old Country Rd’s. Washington, Franklin, & Westbury Ave’s. LIRR Main & Oyster Bay Line’s.

*LIMP Bridges:  Mayan Ruin abutments, Old Country Rd. Hwy Type, and LIRR Pkwy Type. If this crystal clear image captured more north, we would see the Westbury Ave Pkwy/Trolley Bridge.

*Ovals within aerial & present day view:  Mineola Fairgrounds, now the Nassau County Court Complex.

*Buildings lower right:  All part of Roosevelt Field.

*Date aerial/rationale:  An active LIMP ( southbound auto between LIRR & Old Country Rd. ) About 1930.

*Building associated w/1904 VCR:  Upper right & extreme closeup, Krug’s Hotel at NW corner of Jericho Tpke & Mineola Ave.

From Update #3: Mystery Foto #28 Solved: A 1931 Aerial of the Motor Parkway in Garden City and Mineola

Identify the aerial’s location and orientation of the photographer.  Garden City, looking west and north

Identify the major roads and a railroad.  Old Country Road, Franklin, Clinton, Motor Parkway, Washington, Roslyn, Transverse.  Main line of the LIRR

Identify the bridges of the Long Island Motor Parkway.  LIRR Bridge, Old Country Road, Mayan Ruins

What is the series of ovals on the left section of the aerial? What is currently in this location? Racing track of the Mineola/Nassau Fair/Queens Agricultural Society.  Currently the Nassau County Court Complex

Identify the buildings in the lower right section of the aerial.  Part of Roosevelt Field

What is the approximate date of the aerial? Provide a rationale.  Late 1920s - mid 1930s.  Limited development east of the racetrack ovals towards Roosevelt Field.

Kudos bonus: Identify a building in the aerial that was associated with the 1904 Vanderbilt Cup Race.  Initial entries - may try to finalize later this weekend.  But here are some possibilities - The Denton Building that housed the offices of the Vanderbilt Cup Race Committee in Garden City - but that may not have been until 1909.  Perhaps Graves Garage in Mineola.  Or August Porrier’s Garage, but that might not actually be shown on the pic.  Hopefully will find more time to do more research on this one. 

From Update #3: Mystery Foto #28 Solved: A 1931 Aerial of the Motor Parkway in Garden City and Mineola

That 1934 HT front is a direct rip-off of the 1933 Chrysler grille and bumper!  Cantrell woodie, eh?  See <http://sbiii.com/longis-3.html#fultcant> and <http://sbiii.com/chryslr5.html#powerwgn> for more about Cantrell.  What a thread this post turned out to be!  Thanks, all.  Sam, III

From Update#2:Mystery Foto #27 Solved : A 1935 Hudson Special Eight in Front of the Roslyn Mill Tea House

Tim Helck (grandson of Peter Helck)

Do you think it could be the spoon mentioned in the memoirs?:

http://peterhelck.com/memoirs/memoirs.html (part 2)

From VMCCA member Bill Pollock heard of a desirable trinket in the possession of his California friend, Dr. Orland Wiseman. He described it as a small silver spoon on the bowl of which was a perfect representation of “Old 16”. This impelled an inquiry to which the Doctor replied promptly that a direct sale was out. He would, though, consider a swap. What goodies had I on the Three P’s, Packard, Peerless, Pierce-Arrow? Not much, only a small handsome book issued by Peerless at the time of opening their 8-story salesroom and shops on New York’s Auto Row. This I described fully and upon request sent it off. The Doctor liked it, consulted the Harrah Librarian as to its worth, offered me this sum and that deal was satisfactorily ended. But the spoon remained unfinished business. Back on swap terms he suggested I do a small painting of his Pierce-Arrow. I countered with the suggestion of Barney on the Peerless “Green Dragon”. Then, perhaps under Harrah influence, the Three P’s were dropped. Would I do one of the New York-Paris Thomas? I did so with pleasure, the spoon came east and fully measured up to all expectations. It was a nice friendly transaction with satisfaction all around.

From Vanderbilia: The Old 16 Locomobile Spoon

What a great shot!  This is Garden City looking west-northwest.  LIMP is in the bottom right quadrant as its coming from the north, goes over the LIRR and under Old Country road.  A few hangers from Roosevelt field are also present in the bottom right. 

The circles are from the Mineola Fairgrounds, which I believe had automobile racing and ran parallel to Washington Ave.  The court buildings are currently in that location.

The reason why I love this shot so much is I’ve never seen a picture of the Mott section with buildings that belonged to Camp Mills.  If I had to guess this was 31 or 32, since the Motts went up starting in 36.

I would love to see more GC pics from this era.

From Update #3: Mystery Foto #28 Solved: A 1931 Aerial of the Motor Parkway in Garden City and Mineola

Correction; not the Central RR line- it’s the main LIRR line

From Update #3: Mystery Foto #28 Solved: A 1931 Aerial of the Motor Parkway in Garden City and Mineola

Identify the aerial’s location and orientation of the photographer.
Over Roosevelt Field looking West-Northwest directly at Mineola.

Identify the major roads and a railroad.
Central Line, Old Country Rd, Jericho Tpke, Clinton Ave.

Identify the bridges of the Long Island Motor Parkway.
Mineola RR bridge, Old Country Rd, and the Mayan ruins

What is the series of ovals on the left section of the aerial? What is currently in this location?
Mineola Fairgrounds- now the Supreme Court building

Identify the buildings in the lower right section of the aerial.
Roosevelt Field buildings and entrance at the intersection of OCR and Clinton

What is the approximate date of the aerial? Provide a rationale.
Mid to late 1930’s- LIMP appears to still be active and the Roosevelt Field buildings approximate the date for me

Kudos bonus: Identify a building in the aerial that was associated with the 1904 Vanderbilt Cup Race.
Krugs Hotel on Jericho Tpke.

From Update #3: Mystery Foto #28 Solved: A 1931 Aerial of the Motor Parkway in Garden City and Mineola

Thanks Sam for that info about the Lincoln and Chrysler with all those suicide doors.Obviously some people thought it was a good idea. Also as a footnote some present day Bentley’s have suicide doors and I’m sure that there is some magic technology that prevents the doors from opening when car is moving.

From Update#2:Mystery Foto #27 Solved : A 1935 Hudson Special Eight in Front of the Roslyn Mill Tea House

Dick, here’s a stock 1935 Packard 120 Club Sedan with four suicide doors:

http://car-from-uk.com/sale.php?id=25137&country=us

Hadda do that to you!  Some 1934 Chryslers had ‘em but gone by 1935.  Mark, 1935 Hudson and Terraplane hood side grilles are the same on pix I found.  I once drove a weird late ‘30s Hudson that had BOTH a standard floor stick AND an Electric Hand and also a strange Olds {?} of the same vintage that had BOTH a very early Hydramatic AND a manual tranny in series.  Perhaps the oddest of all was a relative’s ca. 1948 MG Y saloon with an Electric Hand - ridiculous!  Sam, III

From Update#2:Mystery Foto #27 Solved : A 1935 Hudson Special Eight in Front of the Roslyn Mill Tea House

Glad that many came to help and learn. I recall quite a few headstones in the Brentwood Cemetery that need some TLC. Have to find out if there’s a cleaning program in my neck of the woods. Very neat, thanks for posting Howard.
_________________________________
Howard Kroplick

Brian, Joe Tracy’s grave site is in the Brentwood Cemetery.

http://www.vanderbiltcupraces.com/blog/article/vanderbiltcupraces.com_exclusive_the_helck_family_memoirs_2_joe_tracy_and_t

From Update #1: Seven Long Island Motor Parkway Preservation Members Help to Preserve a Town Landmark

Another thing to identify the regular Hudson from the Terraplane is the hood engine side vent grill, different. Interesting option available in 1935 Hudsons of the Bendix Electric Hand Shifter, that became available on the 1936 Cord, that some of the left over? transmission with that feature was refurbish and put in the first 51 made Tucker 48, until the Tucker developed auto transmission to be put in at the regular production that didn’t happen.

From Update#2:Mystery Foto #27 Solved : A 1935 Hudson Special Eight in Front of the Roslyn Mill Tea House

Thanks Howard for the vane picture and Al for the cost.  I would LOVE to buy one of those

From Cradle of Aviation Archives: Hangars and Aircraft of Roosevelt Field Along Clinton Avenue

Wish I could add to this; there was a very good pic of the vane around some 20-30 years back but I can’t find it,  Perhaps the LIMPPS member would be kind enough to favo(u)r us with a good photo.  Sam, III

From Cradle of Aviation Archives: Hangars and Aircraft of Roosevelt Field Along Clinton Avenue