Vanderbilt Cup Races

Dear Howard : The posting about the HHB extension is very interesting . Did the Motor Parkway go over (via bridge) Cross Island Blvd. or did it intersect with CIB at ground level in the 1928-1938 time period ? From the 1938 aerial, it looks like CIB dead ends at the Motor Parkway, just after the MP curves to the east . This is curious to me because I believe CIB continued southward from Union Turnpike and was used by motorists as a route to the Rockaways in 1920s-1930s . Thanks, Neal Baker

From The Planned Fresh Meadows Motor Parkway Western Terminus in 1912

Hi Joe:

Here is a link to the photos:

http://www.vanderbiltcupraces.com/index.php/blog/article/tuesday_december_8_2009_the_bridges_of_the_vanderbilt_cup_races

Howard

From VanderbiltCupRaces.com Exclusive: Rare View of a Vanderbilt Cup Race in Bethpage

Terrific, Howard! Looking forward to seeing all the survey maps. I have several documents about this alternate 73rd Ave. ending, which I will send you by email. I was never sure if it was a) planned but never built, or b) built and used while the HHB extension was being constructed, and then abandoned. Also, perhaps the rights of way for the HHB extension had not been completely acquired yet. Does anyone know for sure what happened?

From The Planned Fresh Meadows Motor Parkway Western Terminus in 1912

Hi Joe:

Thanks for the comment.

I have the 16 bridges of the 1908 Vanderbilt Cup Race as follows (listed from west to east):

1. Merrick Avenue (LIMP above bridge)
2. Newbridge Avenue (LIMP above bridge)
3. Stewart Avenue (LIMP below bridge)
4. Carman Avenue (LIMP below bridge)
5. Westbury Avenue (LIMP above bridge)
6. Newbridge Road (LIMP above bridge)
7. Jerusalem Avenue (LIMP under bridge)
8. Bloomingdale farmway (LIMP under bridge)
9. Wantagh Avenue (LIMP above bridge)
10. Massapequa-Hicksville Road (LIMP above bridge)
11. Jerusalem Road (Stewart Avenue) (LIMP above bridge)
12. Central Avue/LIRR (LIMP above bridge)
13. Nibbe farmway (Limp under bridge)
14. Powell Avenue (LIMP under bridge)
15. Plainview Road (LIMP under bridge)
16. Botto farmway (LIMP under bridge)

I will photos of these bridges sometime this month.

Howard

From VanderbiltCupRaces.com Exclusive: Rare View of a Vanderbilt Cup Race in Bethpage

Great stuff Howard, especially the landowners.

From The Planned Fresh Meadows Motor Parkway Western Terminus in 1912

Dear Howard: The aerial is from just after 1936, when PS 162 opened, which is at 53rd Ave and 201 St. My house at 199 St. and 51st Ave. had not yet been built. Francis Lewis Blvd. ends at Horace Harding. I moved in in 1953. There were still many vacant lots and undeveloped commercial properties. Thank you for the shot.

From The Planned Fresh Meadows Motor Parkway Western Terminus in 1912

Kenny: “Very cool! I lived just N or the Bethpage Turn and just S of the RR tracks so I’m very familiar with that corner of Hicksville Road and Hempstead Turnpike. “

From Film "The 1904 Vanderbilt Cup Race Course"

Dear Howard,

Looking at the 1908 Map, can you identify the roads the LIMP crossed.  Here is my stab at it?

Starting from West to East along LIMP:
Merrick Ave
Unknown
Stewart Ave
Old Westbury Rd
Newbridge Rd
Jerusalem Ave
Bloomingdale Rd
Wantagh Ave
Hicksville Rd
Stewart Ave
Central Ave LIRR
Powell Ave (Not Shown)
Plainview Rd
Botto Farmway Bridge
Unknown
Unknown

Thanks for all your wonderful work,
Joe O

From VanderbiltCupRaces.com Exclusive: Rare View of a Vanderbilt Cup Race in Bethpage

More photos of your beautiful wife please.

From In Search of Alcos: #1 Alco-6 Black Beast Racer Archives

Hey Guys I am currently putting together a petition to allow the Motor Parkway Greenway in Queens further east (over Winchester to Little Neck Parkway), so I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t partial to the Great Neck section. However, if people in Levittown are least opposed to the building of the trail, then obviously they should get the first chance. That being said, I believe people are referring to the section between Pintail Lane and Bloomingdale Road is that of sufficient length for the “proof of concept”? If however we are talking about the portion along Salisbury Park Drive through the “grandstands” and if you could somehow link the grandstands section with the section from Universe Drive to Bethpage bikeway that would be a really strong proposal I believe Once the master plan is assembled, we should organize a letter writing campaign to get every congressman on Long Island from Coney Island to Shelter Island to appropriate funds for the full build out.

From Opportunity to Provide Input on the Motor Parkway Trail

Art and Walter:

Thanks so much for the feddback!

Howard

From A Central Park/Bethpage Postcard from a Motor Parkway Worker

Howard, I am the Schenectady County and City Historian, located where ALCO’s main HQ was.  Is there a way I could get a copy of your video you did on the various models of ALCO cars.  I am doing a piece on ALCO for my blog.  Thanks.

From New Book from Howard Kroplick and Al Velocci "The Long Island Motor Parkway"

Hi J:

Great comments!

As you noted, the names of the roads in this area have clearly changed over the last 101 years. The above pdf article on the course as published in Auto Topics on August 8, 1908 probably adds to the confusion.

I will continue to research this area and show my results over the next week or two. I believe I have also just found a 1908 race scene shot at the interscetion of the Bethpage Lodge entrance and Round Swamp Road.

Enjoy,

Howard

From The Public Roads of the 1908 Vanderbilt Cup Race Course

Al, Al, good point! Unfortunately, I have never seen a photo of the Motor Parkway trucks. Does anyone have one? If so, please email me at .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address).

From Trucks, the Motor Parkway and the Vanderbilt Cup Races

Howard, Howard, Howard! At your presentation before ATHS, did you mention that the Parkway owned several trucks over the years that were used by their road repair crew? The most relevant being a Fulton Truck which was built in Farmingdale and purchased in the early 1920’s. There are only 2 Fulton trucks known to have survived, one of them a 1918 model, is at the Cradle of Aviation Museum at Mitchel Field.  Al Velocci

From Trucks, the Motor Parkway and the Vanderbilt Cup Races

JD, You are very funny! Walter and Sam are correct.

Although the Indy Hall of Fame Museum is fantastic, I believe their description of the Premier racer is inaccurate.

As Sam notes, the first Vanderbilt Cup Race was not first organized by William K. Vanderbilt, Jr. until January 1904. Accordingly it would be impossible to “design and build” the “1903” racer for the 1904 Race.

In addition, it is well-documented that the Premier racer was built for the second Vanderbilt Cup Race held in 1905. This 1905 Premier ad protested that the racer was not allowed to compete because it did not meet the weight requirements.

http://www.vanderbiltcupraces.com/vcrsys/Images/Alco/04-01-2007-16-27-13-225_edited-1-2.jpg

From Recent Photos from the Indy 500 Hall of Fame Museum

From JD:

That’s a weighty question.  Do you want the truth, the hole truth and nothing but the truth?

I know this isn’t THE answer, but I’m sure it’s a lot or fun.  And who can’t like puntification?
jd

From Recent Photos from the Indy 500 Hall of Fame Museum

From Sam B:

The Premier premise is false; a car could NOT have been designed in 1903 for any Vandy Cup since there wasn’t any such then.

From Recent Photos from the Indy 500 Hall of Fame Museum

One place says built for the first Vanderbilt Cup Race (1904) and the other says designed for the 1905 race.  Walter

From Recent Photos from the Indy 500 Hall of Fame Museum

I am interested in the names of the roads (both then and now) that made up the eastern end of the public roads for the 1908 race. The LIMP ended at Round Swamp Road, and the race headed north.

Present Road names:
http://www.vanderbiltcupraces.com/index.php/site/picture/map_of_the_1908_course
indicates that the road now called Round Swamp Road was travelled only briefly, and the course followed what is now Old Bethpage Road (which now, at least, briefly merges into Plainview Road just south of Old Country Road). North of Old Country Road, the course follows what is currently known as Manetto Hill Road. At Colyer’s Corner, the course turned right onto what is now Woodbury Road & then left onto Jericho Tpk.

Names in 1908:
http://books.google.com/books?id=oZAJn-d4eMkC&pg=PA54&lpg=PA54&dq;=“colyer’s+corner”&source=bl&ots=v5nxNqTtJx&sig=p0kT0_pg7l44Oo1Ru7wVF5Hu8mE&hl=en&ei=XdoSS-O2N4aqtgOTsJzzBw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CAgQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=“colyer’s corner”&f=false
indicates that the road from Hicksville to Colyer’s Corner was called Woodbury Road in 1908 (as it is still today). It is very likely the section after Colyer’s Corner to Jericho Tpke also was called Woodbury even in 1908.

The same source suggests that 1> Manetto Hill Road and Old Bethpage Road were (either together or partly) called Plainview Road in 1908 - or 2> one passed “through Plainview” Road (meaning “crossed”) when heading to the Bethpage Lodge. However, the use of “through” for Round Swamp Rd indicates the former interpretation is more likely. However, the road now called Plainview Rd is clearly on the 1908 map & was travelled only briefly (between current Old Bethpage & Old Country roads). Various other roads were also called Plainview Rd even in the 1960s. I think it likely that current Manetto Hill Rd may have been called Plainview Rd in 1908.

Note that on the 1908 map:

1> Round Swamp Road is not shown to extend to Old Country Road (though it might), and the map suggests a sharp right might be needed to stay on Round Swamp Rd (which race course does not do) when heading north.

2>Old Country Rd is not shown (or does not exist) between Central Park/Gerhard Rd and Manetto Hill Rd

3> Until 1936, current Old Bethpage was called Bethpage, and current Bethpage was called Central Park. Old Bethpage Road would likely not have that name until 1936 at least.

4> Sources (NY Times, I think) indicate a sharp turn at Plainview (likely at point near phone near Old Country Rd) - but map does not show any turn there

From The Public Roads of the 1908 Vanderbilt Cup Race Course