Vanderbilt Cup Races

Howard,

On behalf of East Neck Auto Service and Pacers Auto, we want to say that having the Black Beast at the 3rd Annual Hot Rods & Race Cars Show & Cacklefest was a fantastic experience! You guys are a class act with an incredible car and we were proud to have you involved.

Scott Snizek

From Future Howard Kroplick and Black Beast Events (Updated November 6, 2010)

I am looking for information on a racing car pictured in the Westbury Turn. The handwriting on the bottom of the image says ‘Parker Fiat’  and the number on the radiator is a black large ‘14’. The picture came from a scrapbook of clippings.

Can you give me any information about this car and when it participated etc?

Thank you.

From June 2010 Highlights on VanderbiltCupRaces.com

Hi Jerry:

Always a pleasure to hear from you. Thanks for the connection!

Here is a link to the film showing the race between Old 16 and the “Breese of Paris”. A very young Jerry Helck was at the race:

http://www.vanderbiltcupraces.com/index.php/blog/article/sunday_july_5_2009_film_the_last_race_for_old_16_and_joe_tracy_1946

The “Breese of Paris” is still running and owned by Michael Sperrazza of Appomattox, Virginia.

Another relative, James Breese, was a commissioner of the 1904 Vanderbilt Cup Race. He can be seen on the course at the end of this 1904 film (gentleman on the far right wearing a cap):
http://www.vanderbiltcupraces.com/index.php/blog/article/1904_vanderbilt_cup_race_video

Enjoy,

Howard

From A Mystery Photo from the 1906 Vanderbilt Cup Race: The B.L.M. Racer

Nice detecting,Howard!

In case you haven’t made the connection, a regular participant in LIOCC meets in the ‘50s-‘60s was a Bobby Breese, presumably the son of Sidney, driving a later BLM (at least that’s what he called it).

I’m fairly sure he’s in your film of the VCR centennial at the Mineola fairgrounds. As I recall it was an unpainted (bare aluminum?) two-seater, quite streamlined for it’s age (late teens?) with red wheels.

I’ll bet Wally McCarthy knows what became of it.

Regards,
Jerry

From A Mystery Photo from the 1906 Vanderbilt Cup Race: The B.L.M. Racer

Good stuff Howard,  can’t wait to see if any relics remain.  I often go past the golf course while traveling on the Northern State and daydream about what’s there.  I’m also a golfer so it would be an interesting highlight while playing to see a post.  Not a member of the club so not sure I would ever have the opportunity. 

There are LIMP posts on the north and south sides of East Williston Road (HIllside Avenue, 25B)by the golf course but according to one one of Sam B’s web pages, these may have been placed there at some point to accommodate the road being widened.  I show these posts on my website on the East Williston page.  Happy Hunting.

From The Motor Parkway and the Wheatley Hills Golf Club in East Williston

Nice to see the Poison Lil info.  And let’s not forget that George Weaver also owned the original Thompson Raceway in Thompson, CT.  It was always a thrill whenever George brought out that magnificent beast and fired it up.

From The Maserati V8RI Vanderbilt Cup Racer at the Saratoga Automobile Museum

From Marie Foster:

Thank you, Howard, The report on my picture was more than I expected!  My Husband, Bob, is excited!  He told me to tell you “this car is in our garage”  JUST KIDDING!  Doesn’t he wish!

Anyway, your research is very interesting and very satisfying, as we have had the photo for about 25 years.  Thanks so much again.

From A Mystery Photo from the 1906 Vanderbilt Cup Race: The B.L.M. Racer

From John T:

Thank you for taking the time to share your one and only with all of us around the Saratoga Springs area. Its a real treat to see something that rare!!

From The Black Beast Returns to Schenectady and Saratoga Springs

Hi Bill:

It was great fun!!

Howard

From Film "The Black Beast's Four-Mile Cruise to the Show"

From Daffodil56:

The pleasure was all in Schenectady being driven around City Hall - what a sight to behold!
What a noise to start her and run her around the Hall. But, it was worth it! Had the pleasure of meeting the car’s team.

https://www.eons.com/groups/topic/2238318-19-9-Alco-6-Racer-The-Black-Beast

From The Black Beast Returns to Schenectady and Saratoga Springs

Looks like great fun to me.  I always enjoy driving antique cars much more than modern iron.  If you can’t drive it, why have it!

From Film "The Black Beast's Four-Mile Cruise to the Show"

Hi
I thought a bit more info might generate some interest from someone about the Scorpion I bought from Lew Flink in 1962. It was re-painted silver with a black center-stripe, and ran the F-Jr. races on the east coast against the rear-engined cars that by now were way faster than the front-engined ones. In fact, at Elkhart Lake that year I was surprised when I was awarded a 1st. place trophy for “Front-engined class”. We didn’t even know they were going to do that! That was kind of funny!. At that race the rear motor-mount broke in practice, and my “crew” (fancy name for my three friends who came along for the fun) made a motor mount from a tent peg that was part of our camping stuff. It worked. Why do I mention this? First, if whoever may have ended up with my car found it, it will help identify which of the three DKW Scorpions they got! I never replaced the tent peg. Second, it was a lot of fun in those days going from race to race, sleeping on the ground in the pits, and enjoying the camraderie of a simpler time.
I would be happy to share more facts and fun stuff about that car with anyone who might care to know.
Best regards,
Dick Gaul

From The Dagradas and the 1960 Cornelius Vanderbilt Cup Race at Roosevelt Raceway

In 1952 the legendary ALFRED MOMO installed a below grade service pit in his NEW SHOP on 55th. St. in Woodside, Queens NYC

From The Pits of the 1908-1910 Vanderbilt Cup Races

Hi George:

I will try to make it. I had a lot of fun last year.

Howard

From Future Howard Kroplick and Black Beast Events (Updated November 6, 2010)

Howard,

Would you be interested in participating in the show at Hallockville again this year? We have moved the show date up to Sunday, 10/3 with a rain date of 10/10 and would provide driving room for the “beast”.

Regards,
George Bartunek

From Future Howard Kroplick and Black Beast Events (Updated November 6, 2010)

From the F1 Blog:

In 1908 the Targa Florio in Sicily saw the appearance of “pits,” shallow emplacements dug by the side of the track where mechanics could labor with the detachable rims on early GP car tires — themselves a major technical improvement over the earlier technique of permanently attached wheels and spokes. But even so, racing cars of the early years were too heavy and fast for their tires; Christian Lauteschalnger’s winning Mercedes shredded 10 tires in the 1908 French Grand Prix at Dieppe!

From The Pits of the 1908-1910 Vanderbilt Cup Races

From Ivan- Australia:

The earliest recorded use of “Pits” in European racing was at the 1908 Targa Florio-18 May at the Circuito Grande Madonie. These are described as shallow emplacements dug into the ground so the mechanics could work on the detatchable rims. Unfortunately i don’t have any photos but i’ve always been curious as to the deepness of the area. However, photos do exist of the pits at the 1908 GP de l’ACF at Dieppe run on the 7th of July. The rules stipulated that only the driver and mechanic could work on the car during the stop.

I can’t answer your question in regards to the first use of pits in American autoracing but i always assumed it was at the 1908 Vanderbilt Cup although the little bird on my shoulder is telling me it could’ve been earlier. Maybe the American’s invented the idea first?

From The Pits of the 1908-1910 Vanderbilt Cup Races

From Richard Armstrong, Bath, UK

The 1907 pictures you are referring to are of the Pesage (scrutineering) area, not the track, and were taken the day before the race. The inspection pit was so that the officials could check for extra hidden fuel tanks as the official fuel allocation was provided by the ACF. There was actually a separate “depot” area for the 1907 race, set back from the track on a “by-pass” and which is also illustrated in Mathieson’s book.

The accepted first use of “pits” is the 1908 GP de l’ACF: I have to wonder when looking at pictures of them whether the dug-out design was simply to give the spectators a better view. After all, only the driver and riding mechanic were allowed to work on the car, with the people at trackside being there purely in an advisory capacity.

From The Pits of the 1908-1910 Vanderbilt Cup Races

From E. Dean Butler- Broughton Green, UK

The 1965 book “Historie du Grand Prix de l’Automobile Club de France 1906-1914” by T. A. S. O. Mathieson has photographs showing pits at Dieppe in 1907. The pits were just narrow enough that a car could straddle them for service from below. The pits seem to have been one continuous pit (not absolutely clear from the photographs). One can see from the photos that
groups of boards nailed together in the size of doors had to be used for the cars to pull into or out of the pits. Photos from the 1908 event also show pits, but these were not designed to be straddled by the cars. They are similar to the Vanderbilt 1908 pits.

From The Pits of the 1908-1910 Vanderbilt Cup Races

From George Benson- Klamath River, CA

This is a very interesting post. I never knew that underground service pits pits were used during the early years of auto racing. I did know where the term “Pits” came from, My Dad and Grand Father owned and operated the “Hester Garage”, the Durant agency, in San Jose, CA during the 1930s. I remember the service pits at the garage. As I recall there were three of them in a car port type section of the U shaped garage structure. I was always frantically instructed not to fall in the “Pits” anytime it looked like the “Pits” had attracted my attention.

From The Pits of the 1908-1910 Vanderbilt Cup Races