Vanderbilt Cup Races

Comment #32…You’ve been quiet, Gordon. I hope we didn’t scare you away.

From Mystery Foto #21 Maybe Solved: The Clinton Avenue Motor Parkway Bridge Under Construction in 1909?

Greg O. - no, the old plant (I worked in it ca. 1957) was some 300’ east of Clinton, behind the later (today’s) office building, and the same distance south of Stewart;  the trees in the distance are about where Stewart is and would have hidden the plant.  Could my “windmill” be a construction crane?  Nah - much to far west and north.  Frank F. - I don’t recall the exact house but I looked at a house in there ca. 1968 that had been built for a top executive, as were the neighboring houses.  They were between the LIRR tracks and Stewart, and between Clinton and Washington.  You know, now that I think back, it may have been built for the Commanding Officer of one of the many bases in that area, a Navy Admiral mayhap.  This is a real “strain the brain"er!  Hurrah for Gordon and Howard!  Sam, III

From Mystery Foto #21 Maybe Solved: The Clinton Avenue Motor Parkway Bridge Under Construction in 1909?

Excellent and entertaining film. I find it disappointing that Tucker was unable to get into mass production. Thanks for sharing his story Howard!

From Film of the Week: Great Cars- Tucker

Does look like two piers underneath but Clinton doesn’t mesh. Photos can be deceiving but the bridge angle compared to the road is way off to be Clinton, in fact appears angled in the opposite direction regardless which way you’re looking (appears about 5 degrees off perpendicular). Bridge angle also doesn’t match other aerials showing appropriate angle. (sending Howard photo).

Sam - The worker on the ground with shovel appears a tree behind, over his head, then more trees further in the distance. Any object in the distance would’ve helped here.

Frank M - If I recall correctly, there was a development built about the same time across the street from, and associated with Curtiss flying field on the other side of Clinton. That may account for the trees disappearing. 

I think the piers on the ground may protrude past the bridge railing above. If so, this will allow some sun to hit the pier even if facing north. Truly baffling.

From Mystery Foto #21 Maybe Solved: The Clinton Avenue Motor Parkway Bridge Under Construction in 1909?

If this was looking South at the Clinton bridge, wouldn’t we see construction of the Curtiss plant down the road on the left?

From Mystery Foto #21 Maybe Solved: The Clinton Avenue Motor Parkway Bridge Under Construction in 1909?

  Hi Howard:  Thanks for a nice video//film as it is informative, detailed and nicely
done.  It was just nice to see and understand a lot of the details and struggles that
took place for this man to get his dream on the road.
                Best Regards Always,  Ron Ridolph

From Film of the Week: Great Cars- Tucker

O.K. - ignore my comments, guys - I’ve got thick skin.  BUT - does Gordon know the answer or are we all shooting in the dark?  IF it’s Clinton and asymmetrical, then it’s looking SOUTH!  Check the piers in the Clinton pix.  Further, the Curtiss plant was (and still is) on the SOUTH side of Stewart, thus SOUTH of the LIMP bridge at Clinton; however pole lines go in TWO directions.  Some of the reasoning expressed in prior comments simply doesn’t hold water.  Frank M., the vertical thingie at the left is a pier; embankments are NOT free-standing, with caps - they have wing walls at each end and go all the way up to the roadway level.  Is definitely a puzzlement!  Sam, III

From Mystery Foto #21 Maybe Solved: The Clinton Avenue Motor Parkway Bridge Under Construction in 1909?

First, there were at least four Parkway bridges in Nassau County that had more than a single span. These were at Willis Ave., Roslyn Rd., Westbury Ave and Clinton Rd. I believe there were more. The average length of a single span Parkway bridge was between 25 and 30 feet . The bridge over Marcus Ave. was 72 feet long and the one over Lakeville Rd.  was 66 feet long, both good candidates for more than a single span.

From Mystery Foto #21 Maybe Solved: The Clinton Avenue Motor Parkway Bridge Under Construction in 1909?

A good tool in helping with this mystery is with the my Nassau property aerials. In the mystery photo you can observe a big stand of tall trees on the left side of the bridge past the bridge. In the 1926 aerial of the Clinton Rd area you do not see any stands of trees. You can look to the northwest and to the southeast without seeing any trees. This would correspond to the mystery photo depending if the photo is facing to the north or south.
I know that the aerial is taken 17 years later, but why would all the trees be removed?  The land looks very barren and is not farm land.  The only trees you can observe are planted along Clinton Rd in the 1926 aerial.  I do not believe that the mystery photo is Clinton Rd based on this observation.  Where did the trees go?
Another observation I made is that the terrain in the mystery photo does not match the later photos of Clinton Rd looking north.  The slope of the ground seams to go up after the bridge.  The slope of the roadway in the mystery photo seams to be level.  A big mystery?

From Mystery Foto #21 Maybe Solved: The Clinton Avenue Motor Parkway Bridge Under Construction in 1909?

Joe - To add to the Clinton Rd Bridge, the 1930s photo above shows Clinton Rd still narrow, but widened just for the underpass below the bridge. This north-facing photo also appears to show some light seeping in onto the left pier, like the mystery foto. The railings also seem to match the mystery. This bridge sat in a NW to SE position because of it curved properties. I’ll be visiting soon to conduct a light/shadow test

From Mystery Foto #21 Maybe Solved: The Clinton Avenue Motor Parkway Bridge Under Construction in 1909?

Joe O.- Those were some of my first thoughts as well, but remember, since it’s still under construction, they have not cleared out the outer passageways of debris so it appears to be not as wide.

Frank- since the flying field was on the East side of Clinton it makes more sense that utility poles were on that side. When I saw Howard’s above ‘30’s photo looking North, that was my semi-confirmation. However, We need a better photo confirmation of that to be completely fair.

From Mystery Foto #21 Maybe Solved: The Clinton Avenue Motor Parkway Bridge Under Construction in 1909?

I told you, Frank F. This mystery image is taking on the status of yours from 2013 ( 4/9/2013 Mystery Foto #9 Possibly Solved:  Powell Ave Bridge and Nibbe Farmway Bridge in Bethpage? ) We may break a record here for the amount of comments.

If the photographer stepped back 25 ft or so and then snapped the image, we’d probably be able to figure this out 100%. Guess we have to keep in mind this was 1909. So Clinton Rd likely wouldn’t have been as streamlined as it looks in 1926.
We’ll have to keep searching for a clearer image of the Westbury Ave Pkwy Bridge, Joe O. But like Frank M. mentioned, there should be trolley tracks where the road is. Westbury Ave extended west to Roslyn Rd post year 1926, following the former ROW of the trolley line.

I do believe that is a pier to the left. It becomes wider towards the bottom. The pier or pillar to the right looks the same at the top and bottom. I know nothing about bridge building but this one is not a finished product, obviously. I hope you have some more images, Gordon.      Thanks, BDM

From Mystery Foto #21 Maybe Solved: The Clinton Avenue Motor Parkway Bridge Under Construction in 1909?

Everyone needs to consider the source of the photo. This came from the Ernst family collection who were the original Lodgekeeper, and later, the decades long inhabitants/descendants of the Garden City lodge. While it’s plausible that they could have aquired historic photos of other LIMP bridges, odds are more in favor that the photo would be of the nearby Clinton bridge.

From Mystery Foto #21 Maybe Solved: The Clinton Avenue Motor Parkway Bridge Under Construction in 1909?

Headache, indeed!  Frank, if it’s hammering you, try an anvil.  Interesting how we all see rather different things in this picture.  I see equal taper on both piers and full symmetry, thus disagreeing with most everybody (as usual).  Wonder if this will be a flat-forehead “Well, DUH!” (IF it ever gets solved).  I still think whatever is in the distance, over the worker’s head, is the clincher - sure looks like a windmill tonight.  Sam, III

From Mystery Foto #21 Maybe Solved: The Clinton Avenue Motor Parkway Bridge Under Construction in 1909?

I’m just making guesses.  The photo is circa1913.  The license plates probably EXPIRE in 1914.  and the so called race might be the Long Island Auto club run.

From Mystery Foto #59 Solved: The Van Ausdall's Hotel in Cold Spring Harbor, NY Circa 1914

When Gordon says he lived next to the Motor Parkway in Bethpage he didn’t mention that his house was practically next door the the Bethpage Lodge. His address wa 17 Motor Lane.

From VanderbiltCupRaces.com Exclusive: From the Lodgekeeper's Family Archives-The Garden City Lodge

Cannot be north, impossible. Could be Clinton bridge looking south but that would put the power lines on the wrong side. Clinton had power on the east side. I need an advil

From Mystery Foto #21 Maybe Solved: The Clinton Avenue Motor Parkway Bridge Under Construction in 1909?

I am not convinced this is Garden City.  Clinton Road always seemed so wide.  In this picture is seems to narrow.  The outermost underpass lanes seem like they are dirt and weeds.  The left pillar is straight in the inside wall, and expands outward towards the left.  Just like the Clinton Rd bridge.  But the right side pillar seems to be straight down as a right angle in the middle, yet it does not appear to become wider at the bottom, the way the Garden City bridge does. 

Things I would like to know.  Does a good picture of Westbury Ave exist.  Were Garden City and Westbury Ave basically built off the same blue prints?  Or are they different?  How wide was Clinton Rd in 1909?  I would love to see someone identify this bridge at 100%.

From Mystery Foto #21 Maybe Solved: The Clinton Avenue Motor Parkway Bridge Under Construction in 1909?

I haven’t the foggiest idea BUT those aren’t “pillars” (columns), they are “piers” (full width) AND they appear symmetrical, which knocks out Clinton.  Can’t tell but IF the whole bridge is symmetrical, as it appears to me, that would nix the trolley line bridges, Westbury and Broad Hollow.  Also, BHR is out because it only had ONE pier,  The piers are tapered, so not Queens.  Funsies.  Sam, III

From Mystery Foto #21 Maybe Solved: The Clinton Avenue Motor Parkway Bridge Under Construction in 1909?

If the photo is of the Clinton Rd bridge,  the direction of the photo I believe would have to be to the south.  This is due to the shadows and the brightness of the sun.  The photographer is facing into the sun.  You can see the shadow cast onto the left side of the bridge embankment.  I also believe that the bridge is only a one pillar bridge.  You can only see one pillar.  The pillar on the left I believe is the bridge’s embankment and not a pillar. You can tell were the top concrete section begins on top the embankment.

From Mystery Foto #21 Maybe Solved: The Clinton Avenue Motor Parkway Bridge Under Construction in 1909?